hybrid - an organism that is the offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock; especially offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties or breeds or species; "a mule is a cross between a horse and a donkey

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hybrid

From this definition I conclude that a cross of two breeds of dogs can be accurately defined as a hybrid (an F1).

This post started with an example of poor dog breeding gone wrong. This can and does occur in pure breeds. It is not inherent in "designer" or hybrid breeding. I personally don't understand the antipathy sometimes expressed in this thread to the concept of cross-breeding, as opposed to some of the mystifying preferences shown by the market for dogs like "muggles" and any poorly conceived examples of breeding that arise.

The sensible folks who buy labradoodles are rational in avoiding a closed genetic population. If they do their research they can find well bred F1 labradoodles with health clearances, and parents with good character, and get excellent pet dogs, with less probability of genetic related health issues. They don't go to shelters, for the same reasons most on this board buy puppies or adult dogs well researched breeders.

An Australian study indicates that the prevalence of H.D. in labradoodles is less than in labradors, and more than in poodles: exactly what one would expect.

Various studies indicate that as inbreed coefficient goes up, average longevity in a breed population goes down.

The F1 labrador*goldens have extremely good placement records in service dog work.

The fastest sled dogs in the world are crosses of pointers and alaskan huskies (themselves a mish-mash). In addition the Mitch Seavie team that won the Iditarod a few years back was a team of totally outcrossed three year old alaskans.

It is my understanding that the "lurcher" saluki*greyhound crosses are very successful coursers.

The Fuller & Scott research from the 50s-60s indicates that hybrids were often healthier, larger, than the purebreed predecessors.

That being said, there is a limit to what can be achieved in F1 populations and I don't believe that any F1 population is a "breed." Certainly the existence of F1 crosses does nothing to increase genetic diversity within breeds.

To my way of thinking, what really needs to happen is for canine stud books to open, and the sort of intermediate registries that exist in the equine world developed.

I think that crosses should occur in functionally similar populations: ie malinois * gsd, or gsp * ep, or whatever a breeder may wish to venture, and defend.

rgds, andrew may

the problem is though that these "designer dogs" aren't being produced for any other reason other than money. These little crossbred pups have become the "hot" item publicy and that is why people are clamoring for them and why they have exploded onto the scene the way they have. Not because they are trying to come up with a better Protection dog, or a better seeing eye dog or field dog.

What possible need can their be for a Malti-poo, or a Muggle or any of the other cross bred dog that ends in "poo"? Its certainly not to try and mix two well rounded breeds into one super dog.

They're cash grabs, thats my beef with this.

The public is buying into it though and forking over their money for these mass produced pups.

You think the puppy mills are bad now? Just wait. I think this is seriously going to become some sort of epidemic where any guy/girl needing money is going to start producing pups and calling them "designer" dogs and selling them. I can just see the ads in the papers now.
"Be the first on your block to own a Border-Poo or a German-Schnauzer or a Dober-Shepherd...Only $1000 each.

Wendy -

That is my major beef with it as well..the cash grab. Being a PB lover that is exactly what is happening to the PB breeds and is quickly becoming their down fall. Lord knows what will happen to these adult designer breeds..and what hazards they will create. APBT fanciers believe the Am Staffs are mutts as they are bred away from the original standard and mixed with who knows what for huge heads and thick necks and so on...and walla we have all kinds of irratic behavior that was not seen 20 years ago in the APBT. It is sad we do not learn from history, even as we are creating it.

I always giggle when I think of a PB/Shitzu mix...I would call it BS, and that is what I think of all this designer dog activity. Lets hope we are all prepared for the consequences.******sigh******

 Quote: Barbara Earnhardt

Hell, I just saw a couple weeks ago a young actress that has a dog with no front legs! and she is so proud of it.

If the dog has no front legs, then is it safe to assume that it walks upright on its hind legs all day like a primate? HECK, I'd be so proud of that dog too! Now if they could only fit it with prosthetics in order to teach it how to use chopsticks and eat sushi.

Hi,
a chorkie is a Chihuahua/Yorkie cross.

When people call me to enquire about the club I always ask what type of dog do you have? as time goes on people are refering to thse 'designer breeds' as if they are a pedigree when they are first generation cross breeds.
I have absolutly nothing against any of these dogs....however these owners seem to have big problems trearting their dogs as dogs and not fashion accesories.
The chorkie has a problem walking on a leash because the owner insists on carrying it everywhere!

John

Yep, someone in the office told me they're getting this great new rare breed of dog -- When I asked what it is, he said, "A Puggle!" -- But I just let sleeping dogs lie, because I have to work with this guy...

Andrew, what does the term "F1" mean?

All the breeds we have now started out as "designer" dogs, in the sense that they were originally selected for some desirable characteristic. The difference is that the original breeders did not allow the dogs that didn't have that characteristic reproduce.

Right now, it seems to me (non breeder, have had only 2 dogs in 54 yrs) that a lot of breeding in this country goes on to get a look. A dog that looks good. And they are being selected for that.

It makes sense to me, and seems smarter, to create designer dogs for characteristics that really count. For example, low energy couch potatoes that are affectionate and don't shed, for apartment dwellers. Or in my case, a GSD like dog that can be trained to use the toilet

But I think that kind of breeding would be expensive and take several generations before you had a "new" breed with the characteristics you wanted. And someone would have to set a standard that went beyond how long the nose is, or how far the ears hang down.

Rich, I believe in genetics P1 is the generation of the parents (say, a Lab and a Poodle) and F1 is their immediate offspring (Labradoodle). But don't quote me on that, it's been a few years since 9th grade.

I think from remembering reading about this when looking at Bengal cats F1 is basically one parent is a wildcat and the other is a domestic, then F2 is both parents are domestics but one generation removed from wildcat, F3 both domestics 2 generations removed etc. F1 kittens were going for 10k$ (half serval, they are like the Mal's of the cat kingdom heh) and F6 kittens were a reasonable 500$.

Can't wait until we start seeing wolfhuauas (Chichuaua Wolf hybrids)!

As a matter of fact, most of the poodle crosses are not hypo/alergenic, shed like crazy, & are a bitch to groom. If you go on the net you will see many of the "breeders" have backed away from this claim. Believe it or not, they think there are other reasons to breed this disaster of a dog. The other reason I hae a problem with these designer breeds is the "breeders" are about as conciension (sp) as a cow. Don't believe me? Go look at the "breeding stock" on thier websites - pet store rejects!