Oh, Angelique-I totally agree that you can find a dog you like in the color you like, but when you have mediocre pets that are being bred, it would appear that color is the ONLY consideration. I think Mr.C is a handsome guy, but hey, I may be a teeny weeny bit biased, and if he was a dud, I'd say he was a dud, and not breed him, despite his striking good looks.

Is it just me or did Shan leave the party a long time ago??

It appears "THE GREAT DEBATE" has turned into "I'M TAKING MY MARBLES AND GOING HOME".

 Quote: judy troiano

Is it just me or did Shan leave the party a long time ago??
It appears "THE GREAT DEBATE" has turned into "I'M TAKING MY MARBLES AND GOING HOME".

I've seen Shan online searching forums once or twice while THE GREAT DEBATE continues without him.

I think everyone on this thread has scared him off....wonder why?

Well, I just checked out Shan's website for the first time (everything had been disabled every time I tried).

Here's something from Shan's website that might interest you:

 Quote:

It has come to our attention that people are sledging our kennel name on certain forums, along with questioning our ethics as breeders.
We do not appreciate this kind of behavior and people that continue to do so will suffer the consequences.

So she starts a thread and then when people don't respond the way she wants, she writes threatening comments on her website...but not here. Hmmm. I wonder what the consequences are?

I think we need to stop bashing.
Shan has obviously noticed a flaw and since has been lurking on the forum- she is trying.
She's no where near a money-hungry puppymill- she's only had one litter. The TV show that inspired her to own a black GSD (see the link on her about us page) is obviously misleading, saying that Black GSD's are a different, rare breed than the regular gsd's, but yet also stating that the white are a fault. Look at the influential breeders she got her dogs from. hmmmmm. It's easy to see how she got confused.
Lets try to coach her with our valuable knowledge and not criticize anymore. We all have pretty blunt, strong opinions here and that can really turn people who want to improve or learn off. Maybe she was just misinformed.
Gosh if I really was breeding blacks for only color and knew better, I would never even come here for fear of "Forum Death by bashing".

Alison

Let's give the benefit of the doubt and see how her planned breeding end up going through or not. If it does, at least we tried.

Fair enough. I have no desire to get involved in a bash-fest, either. I do have to say that she kind of set the tone from the get-go though, with her attitude on a previous thread and this one, and then says something about us "suffering the consequences" on her website.

If she does come back and wants advise, I'm sure people will embrace that. People here are brash and blunt, but they DO help. I hope she does try to improve. Everyone's made mistakes and everyone can learn from them if they want to.

 Quote:

I do have to say that she kind of set the tone from the get-go though, with her attitude on a previous thread and this one, and then says something about us "suffering the consequences" on her website.

That's because I sent her a firm but rude email, that I later apologized about, concerning her breeding for color.. before her original post... all the stuff she asked about. I'm the original post's "hot head".

Alison

Hey, everyone can screw up--everyone can change! I hope she does.

Alison, hope you didn't apologize because of those scary "consequences" of hers!

I agree with Alison, if you close the door everytime someone says the wrong thing , don't expect any changes.We must open up to people whos' beliefs are not in the right place(breeding dogs that are not OFA ect..)help educate those people, just because Shan is not on the right track does not mean he can't be helped to get on to the right path..I don't care to argue for the sake of arguing, but Shan sounded like he was asking for some advise and jumping at his throat is not going to help.Educating that person will make a difference , beating him down will not teach him a thing, all it teaches a person is don't ever ask for advise.Alot of board members give great advise on this board and take the time to research other members questions and answers.This is the right place, let's not beat people down for asking,even if they have a web site that says bunch of bolony.Educate educate educate...

By the way is Shan a he or she some of you say "he" and others say "she"???

 Quote: amber morgan

Well, I just checked out Shan's website for the first time (everything had been disabled every time I tried).

Here's something from Shan's website that might interest you:

 Quote:

It has come to our attention that people are sledging our kennel name on certain forums, along with questioning our ethics as breeders.
We do not appreciate this kind of behavior and people that continue to do so will suffer the consequences.

So she starts a thread and then when people don't respond the way she wants, she writes threatening comments on her website...but not here. Hmmm. I wonder what the consequences are?

I have been following this thread simply for the entertainment value. It did appear that all she wanted was an arguement from her first post.

Shan's posts was, at first, answered with genuine constructive criticism. Shan took disagreement and good breeding advice as a personal attack on her and became defensive which opened her up to all the bashing.

No one likes having their belief system challenged. Figuratively speaking, Shan was "caught with her hand in the cookie jar" regarding some of her contradictions and would not admit it. The only person Shan was fooling was herself.

We cannot help or give advice to people that are not willing to listen. And forcing our opinion will only make Shan hold onto her beliefs that much more. This is counterproductive to helping a person become a responsible breeder.

Allison may be right - Shan appears to be breeding with only limited experience and we should not be too harsh. This forum is one of the most honest, open and truthful forums available for excellent breeding advice. Let us welcome Fran into our flock with open arms, give her a second chance......a clean slate.

Or maybe we'll all sufffer the consequences of our actions!

C'mon on back Shan!