The other thing about this topic that I find amusing and ironic is that I bet most of us posting on this subject care way more about our pets food than we do about what we eat ourselves!
Just a thought.

You are so right about that .... but then again, it is my pup that will EAT ANYTHING (not me) ... today on our walk, he was trying to eat LAST YEAR's ROTTEN CRAB APPLES.

Then again, he likes fruit almost as much as toast.

I think the problem I have with Mike s' web site is the fact that he says he gives supplements like treats, big mistake.I also know that sanctuaries and zoos' will do a lot of things "the cheap way" Not all, but majority.As far as vegetable matters i have books on wolves and their eating habits and Dingos and I have not yet read that wolves eat and go to find vegetable matters.I did read about the fur but never why, I think the cooking part is a bit over the top, and wolves will eat a fresh kills over any rotten meat, the reason they hide any meat is for later use and as a survival reason.I have never seen or read wolves make a fresh kill and hide it for a while before they eat itjust because they like it broken down better,unless they are full from a previous meal.I have seen wolves on national geography wolves catching fish in shallow water with their mouths and I've always believed that they eat fish.So many opinions and not enough real facts.i actually stay away from any sanctuaries that say kibbles are better..it's all about the $$ IMO

Ok, so basically what this all boils down to is high protein kibble "may" cause kidney problems because of the low moisture content and "may" cause a puppy to grow too fast and get fat because of the high fat content, both of which I agree, are legitimate concerns. If I was to add water to the kibble and feed just enough that the puppy/dog doesn't start to look chubby, it seems neither should be a problem? Or, do you think feeding a lower protein kibble that has grains in it is a better answer.

After I posted my initial question about feeding high protein kibble to puppies, I emailed customer service at Innova regarding feeding puppies EVO. They responded today saying that EVO is guaranteed to be nutritionally complete and balanced for all ages. They have a special feeding chart for feeding EVO to a puppy based on their current weight and % of adult weight. For example, if you have a 20lb puppy that, as an adult should weigh about 45lbs, he should eat about 2.37 cups a day. Gradually decreasing to adult feeding of 1.19 cups. I am sure this formula would be very similar to other high protein kibbles.

Now, my next question....Do you feed puppies 2 or 3 times a day? If 3 times, how old do they need to be before you feed 2 times a day? Is there anything that you recommend adding to a kibble diet (for a puppy) to supplement it?

Thanks everbody for your feedback.. I am learning a lot and loving it!!!

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Hey Michelle,
First, a puppy should be fed three times a day until about six months old. Then you can switch to two times a day. In my opinion I would be adding canned food or meat to that. Small pups expend a lot of energy just growing, let alone playing. The canned Evo is good and there are some other great products like Evangers. They have a 100% Organic Chicken in a canned food. That is all that is in the food, chicken. I took in a pregnant female GSD last fall. She gave birth to nine puppies Oct.5th. They all did very well on Canidae All Life Stages Formula supplemented with Evangers and Evo canned food. Most if not all are still eating the Canidae and are very happy and healthy. One of the most important reasons I use it is because of the rescue work I do. I simply can not afford most of the other higher quality kibbles, of which there are few, when I am regularly caring for 8 to 10 dogs. Canidae gets me about 95 percent of what the other better foods do at a cost comparable to foods like Iams, Nutro, and Eukanuba. I do agree that preparing the food for them would be the best choice, but, I do not have the time, nor skill. As a side note, I have begun adding Evo Red Meat kibble to my 9-1/2 month old GSD puppy's food. She is a high energy dog and it seems to be working well.
One other funny thing about all of this is that the dog my family had when I was a kid was fed Mighty Dog his whole life. He lived 18-1/2 years. That was a good long life, but, I guess some will say that he could have lived well in to his twenties.

Steve, just wondering...if you're buying canned food, aren't you spending more on it that you would be on raw if bought in bulk? I'm not trying to sway you, I'm just asking cause it seems like you could save money and feed a raw diet if that's what you prefer by doing just that--buying in bulk.

Hey Mike,
I was off reading some other crazy posts. I use dry Canidae. When I had the puppies here (they have all been adopted as of early January) I was adding canned food to their dry food. With my own puppy I feed her Canidae dry and add Evo Red Meat dry to it. I only add canned food occasionally. As I said in the previous post I am the co-founder of a rescue group. I wish I could afford to use a higher quality food, but, presently I can't. The other issue is that I have been very successful in recommending Canidae to people who adopt from me. If I was trying to convince adopters to use raw food or a more expensive dry food like Innova, Timberwolf, or others they would tell me to go fly a kite. While Canidae might not be the absolute best food, it certainly is a very good food and better than most of the garbage on pet store shelves. I prefer that my dogs and cats get at least this level of food as opposed to my adopters giving up and buying the regular garbage out there.

Regarding some of the posters' problems with the info that the website posted provided ( http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/wolf_mike.html ), I have one problem too. When I read that the author of the site feeds Flint River Ranch kibble, I looked it up and the ingredients were mostly grain fillers. That doesn't do much to convince me of the author's viewpoint.

My daughter’s lab is on a low-protein kibble (Hills Prescription K/D) as a result of a serious bout with lepto that left her kidneys weakened/damaged. Not only our family vet, but the specialist who treated her, said she would need low amounts of protein for the rest of her life to keep her kidneys functioning adequately.

Am I reading different advice here and, again, is this just an issue of spending $55.00/bag for dog food that you can only buy from the vet (= profit for vets!)? Who do you believe?

My kitty has a condition called eosinophilic granulomas on her tummy (she has had a bare belly for over a year) that is caused by allergies. My vet had her on hills prescrition diet for allergies for about 3 weeks, but once her steroid shot wore off, she wouldnt eat it. It is very expensive, and since I have been applying flea medicine regularly and feeding her EVO cat food (if I am going to big money on food, I want it to be good quality and not have HILLS on the label), it has cleared up almost entirely. I also give her raw beef ocasionally, which my vet told me was the one thing she shouldn't have, but no problems so far.

I do think that in many cases, the vetfood is rather gimmicky. The vet told me the Hills food had a different molecular(sp) structure than regular kibble and therefore was more easily digested?? If a low protein food is all she needs, there are good ones out there. I agree with many of the other posters, when it comes to our pets diet, the vet is not usually our best choice for quality information.

I'm curious, how long was your lab sick? Did she require IV, hospitalization? My 11 1/2 yo ACD had Lepto when she was about 3 or 4 from drinking out of our seasonal stream. She didn't require IV or anything but did need meds to get better. I don't remember them saying anything about a special diet for her.