One way of checking into the trainer is to look at some of the dogs he/she has trained. At least talk to the clients if you can't go see the dog work. Shutzhund is not a good test to look at a dog in hopes that the dog will protect. Many Schutzhund trainers are so big on prey drive that they don't spend much if any on defense. No defense drive, no fight. The dog needs both, and defense drive just isn't conducive towards the game of Schutzhund (so most Schutzhund trainers think). A ppd needs to be focused on the man and not the sleeve. It is a balancing act in Schutzhund with to much defense drive because nobody wants to see the dog spit out the sleeve and go for the man. This is what a ppd should do though. If you can't evaluate a dog on your own, then take someone who can instead of taking the breeders word for it. With home patrol your gonna want a dog with a degree of sharpness to it (they alert easier). If the dog has the correct genetics for defense drive it will do on the street as well as the vehicle. A dogs drive for defense is directly correlated to the distance from home, so the further down you go on the temperment scale the less likely the dog is to protect on the street.

Forget all the "Sch dog won't protect you" stuff, if the dog has the right temperament for protection, it'll be a protection dog weather it does Ring, Sch or doggy dancing, it don't matter. The key for you is to find someone with a lot of experience to help and educate you and explain certain lifestyle changes you'll need to make. It's all about the right dog.,
AL

This is exactly my point. What the dog does as far as sport goes really has nothing to do with it. The temperment, genetics and the training are the things you are concerned with. The training though in Schutzhund varies a bit from trainer to trainer, but in general (and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water) differs when it comes to the amount of defense training.

Michael,
I've sold SchH III titled PPD's and untitled PPD's which were of the exact same quality - it's all in the training that the dogs received ( and having the temperament to handle real world protection training, of course ).

Unfortunately, there are many trainers that will gladly sell a sport dog to a PPD client knowing that the client won't be able to tell the difference ( and likely won't ever be put in the situation where they really need a PPD ). So both the buyer and the seller share the blame there.

The seller is responding to the market and sees that it's easy to sell an inadequately trained dog to a clueless buyer.
The seller then has the advantage in that even when the buyer finally finds out that they paid waaay too much for a poorly trained dog, they won't want to admit it and will defend their poorly thought-out purchase. I've seen that happen literally dozens of times.

The buyer doesn't do his homework about what a PPD entails or allows the seller to cut corners and sell them an inadequate dog. And most buyers never have the dog tested properly during their selection phase.

Steve- I agree- follow the money. If they are getting results and paying for more, something must be working right!

Angelique- Alot of people want a dog to bite but don't take the time to fine-tune. And that works for them! I love the fine tuning part.

Agree with Al & Michael- I believe sport is a good foundation to get the OB, control, bring out some dirves needed, experience and confidence, but yes, there has to be more. I like a dog with good nerves to handle defense & stress of training. When trained, I think they make "wiser" decisions about good/bad people too.

It is easy to title and sell dog who will only work in prey. Why do the extra work if the buyer/hnadler get what they want with half the work done. This is why I felt a little disappointed at the mondio show I went to and some other videos of dogs in sports- The dogs were just goofing off biting a playful pillow. I only saw 1 dog who looked like he realy wanted to be aware of the decoy and seriously engage & guard. They act like these dogs are soooo special/talented and forget that mondio is supposed to be a test of a dog's protection/working ability. It doesn't seem that way anymore. "Everyone" wants a dog who can be titled and win a show for their ego. Personally, I am not proud of a dog like that. I want a dog who can really do what the work in the rght "frame of mind" and under a handler's control. You spend all that time training for a dog who can't even perform the oringial duty. All just my opinions folks....(totally venting my ppd's are the coolest side) I like sports too though. Still a challenge- I'm not above them. Just wanting something different.

Will- The training you do is complete & well-rounded on your dogs and that the dogs would have learned control of their drives and OB. It sucks that some scammers just do it for the money though.
How do you test and evaluate a dog for a a ppd? What proves the dog can handle it and what doesn't?

I agree with Alison. Bachtim used ti call it an "epistemological problem". What it basically is that people concentrate on the irrelevant and forget about the primary objective. It's not about points, it's not about which dog can perform the routine better. It's about who's the meanest SOB who will protect you and give to time to retreat, defend, or call for help.
Al, HOW do you find someone with a lot of experience? It's not like there's a data base out there about people who evaluate bad ass dogs and can turn them into such... or is there???

Enrique,
post the area you live around and how far you're willing to travel and maybe some of the folks on here can give you some recomendations. It's super, super important to have someone you can go to for experienced advice, in my opinion anyway, and you'll still screw up sometimes, it's the nature of the beast.
Good luck,
AL

I'm in Minneapolis. I'll travel. Wisconsin, Iowa. I drove to Montana to pick up a dog... 1200 miles. I am committed. I'll go anywhere for a weekend. As far as doing it two orr three times a week it'd have to be closer. Maybe Wisconsin and here in Minnesota.

I've posted this idea at least a dozen times but I'll repeat it here.

If you're considering buying a finished dog, it really helps to take your own helper/decoy along to test the dog.
If the kennel/vendor refuses to allow this ( they do have a right to check out your decoy for safety and skill level, of course ), I'd walk away from the deal.

For a puppy purchase, it wouldn't hurt to have the puppies tested in front of you using the Flinks puppy selection method.

Hi Will, what is the Flinks selecting method? I can research it if you give me the source. Also, the pup I want to buy is in Alaska, so that would be pretty hard. How to go about it if you're buying online? Also, what about a young dog that's not finished?
thx.