i've spoken to the breeder about selling two dog for the same household. she states that she has never had a problem. i've been doing my homework when it comes to knowing what i need to know about a breeded. i was also recommended to her from one of the best breeders around. your are not kidding when it comes to making no mistakes with this breed. believe me when i tell you we don't let anything get by us with these dogs. we nip it in the bud from the start....

If you want an understanding of the empirical evidence and biological basis for not trying to raise two puppies from a single litter together, start with the Lansing book cited below.

In it you will find summaries of research indicating the importance of removing pups from mothers and littermates within critical periods for ultimate training and socialization outcomes, and the importance of the one-on-one bond with the handler for control.

Handbook of Applied Dog
Behavior and Training

Volume 1: Adaptation and Learning

By Steven R. Lindsay

To learn about why many on this board are alarmed at your decision to raise two Presas at once you may want to read the book: "Fatal Dog Attacks" by Karen Delise as there are, within your posts, a few indicators that you are at risk with two of these dogs (if not for a fatality, at least for an "incident").

1) you value protective attributes;
2) they will be allowed to form into a two dog pack;
3) no clear indicator that a single person will be in charge of the dogs and manage their dominant tendencies;
4) the dogs have tremendous capacity to do damage if an error occurs, so training/management errors can have big consequences.

Your breeder, who says "she has never had a problem" hasn't got a clue and in my opinion is not considering your best interest. Get off this train now, and stick with one pup at a time.

I wish you good luck but to be frank, my prediction is you are not going to do well on present trajectory.

rgds, andrew may

 Quote: lisa gonzalez

believe me when i tell you we don't let anything get by us with these dogs. we nip it in the bud from the start....

Aren't you the same lisa gonzalez that also said this just a few hours ago:

 Quote: lisa gonzalez

we are preparing our home for them, making sure we meet all their needs. or at least most of them.

So will the real lisa gonzalez please stand up?

While some of us, like me, are being most definitely blunt, others are being very diplomatic. But no matter how the message is delivered, the message throughout this whole thread is unanimous - don't even think about getting two presa canario pups at the same time.

But, lisa, you are steadfast in your position and seem to want no part of the sound and sage advice you are getting. Which brings me to my last thought...there is a Danish proverb that goes like this: "Ask advice only of your equals".

So, I suggest that if you want to hear someone tell you it will be OK to get two Presa pups at the same time, I suggest you follow this Danish proverb.

this is the real lisa....
i asked for advice and i thank everyone. i am a firm believer of "there is a way of saying things" i ask for the advice and i get it. now it's up to me to decide what to do with that info. there's nothing wrong with being blunt. but you make it seem like i'm suppose to say ok ok i won't get one. * remember i asked for advice not for someone to make a decision for me* i'm not being ungrateful of anything like that. i have had other messages stating the opinion that your making.but remember i'm the one with the last decision...... are you a previous presa owner or have had previous experiences? if not, i don't need to hear anything else from you if it's not from past or present experiences.

hi
let me ask you is it because of the breed that the idea of two pups is bad or is it a second nature for littermates to react so negative?

Lisa,

It has nothing to do with breed. Raising 2 pups at the same time, of any breed, is a bad idea. It's not just "IMO" it's in EVERYONE's opinion.

I have done it in the past and regretted it.

The issue here is you're looking, and waiting, for the answer that you want to hear. You're ignoring all the advice (4 pages worth) that you are getting.

Re-read this - or better yet, have a friend that isn't your best friend read these posts. Put a pair of fresh eyes on it that you trust and see if anyone else says "Gee, maybe you should rethink this."

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

For my part, I have seen this diffuculty first hand - the pups were hound mix litter mates, the owner (a dear friend) was advised against taking both but did it anyway out of sympathy, and she regretted it every day afterwards. The story ended tragically for one of the pups because they were never able to be trained and were CONSTANTLY getting loose or into dangerous trouble. After the death of the female, the male became MUCH closer to the family, bonded with the husband and learned to listen to his people. I can't imagine what that story would have been like had the unruly littermates been predisposed to dominance or aggression...

Lisa, It is NOT solely an issue of breed - my second-hand experience above was with HOUND puppies, a QUARTER of the size and not at ALL as intense in temperment and drive as your chosen Presa, but equally disasterous in outcome(note: owner now has only ONE remaining dog as the female of the pair DIED due to complications of their difficult rearing...). I watched the owner of these sweet dogs struggle daily with house manners, obedience, destructive behavior and wild Houdini escapes from just about every enclosure imaginable. These two pups were out of control simply because they were TWO.

I don't think anyone here has any problem whatsoever with your breed of choice - so long as you understand what you're dealing with, nor do we refute your necessary abililty to control an adult Presa (though ultimately, we don't have much to glean from the conversation thus far). The point is ABSOLUTELY about the danger and difficulty in raising TWO puppies of ANY breed at the same time. There is a dynamic that exists between 2 pups that is unlike, and quite stronger than, any human/dog bond. In order to foster a bond with YOU, the pups will need to be separated from each other completely for quite some time. You will need to work with each pup individually to build trust and training - it will take DOUBLE the time and effort of raising a single pup. You will have your hands full until the pups are perhaps a year old. Then and ONLY then can they be introduced to each other and taught to co-exsist under your leadership.

We know you have owned Presas in the past, but you admit you have never raised 2 pups at once. Since you asked for advise from experience, this is what I personally can offer you - many others have alluded to the same. In the end, you will indeed be in control of your own decision, but at least you will have been warned.

~Natalya

Wow, two presa canario pups..sounds like A LOT of work! You mentioned that you had five sets of hands to help you out. This will prove to be very confusing for your pups (inconsistency), especially if those people have never successfully trained a dog before.

If the pups are from the same litter, rivalry issues will develop between your pups. This means that you will have to deal with dogs fights when they grow up. The fact that they are very powerful breeds will make it extremely dangerous to even attempt to break them up. When I was younger, I used to have a pack of 4 dogs, and two males from the pack (same litter) will ALWAYS go at it. My sister's co-worker got herself two Shitzu pups, from the same litter. They've grown up now, and they're ALWAYS fighting.

The way to get your dogs not to fight will require YOU to be their pack leader. That means that you are the one, and only to work with and train both of your pups, the correct way. With time and consistency, you will gain your dogs' respect. Thing is that you will have your hands very full. It takes a while to properly train just one dog, let alone two. Then again, it's your decision to either keep one or both. Just giving you a heads up about what lies ahead. Good luck to you. My 2 cents...

thanks for the advice

i should have been more clear about the sets of hands. i said that because of the poop that needs to be picked up. as far as training them i will be the sole trainer. i have my books, videos and experience. i'm not saying i'm all knowing but i'm doing my homework. i will also be getting guided from another breeder who is familiar with them. the fighting is what worries me. that's where the pack leader comes in.... i know i have to be calm and firm with them. ty for your 2cents.

Lisa,
I don't have the dog training experience that most of the people on this board do, but I am currently raising a 12 week old cattle dog and have to ask....why 2 puppies at the same time?????

You have stated you are set on getting 2 presa puppies at the same time but you haven't explained WHY. You said you have a large amount of property to protect. Well, even though I have never owned or trained a PPD, I know it takes years of training. I hope you aren't getting 2 presa puppies because they will just "grow up to protect" you.. that is a lawsuit waiting to happen, at the very least.

What I DO know, is having 2 dogs raised together will create 2 uncontrolable dogs that would rather "listen" to the other dog than to you. My puppy is only allowed to interact with my 12 year old cattle dog, briefly and always supervised, but during those times, she basically ignores me. I can't even imagine training 2 cattle dogs together. I would literally have to have a training yard like Ed does, where the dogs couldn't see each other.

If it is a matter of a deposit already put down on the puppies, a reputable breeder would hold that deposit for a future litter. It sounds like you haven't had a puppy in a long time (if ever) so believe me when I say....there is a lot to learn and you make MANY mistakes. Do you really want to make ALL the mistakes at the same time with 2 puppies? Get one...learn, train, bond...then, when you and the not so puppy dog are ready, get another puppy....And start all over, with a little more knowledge and patience