BTW, Reference the undermined foundation statement you made. What part of my reply did you not understand. Your question makes no sense.

Howard

I'm sure there are many law suits in CA. What I said was, I've never heard of the "one bite rule" you spoke of. I'll have to ask some of my CA collegues about that. It's also true that there are officers that sometimes are not in controll of themselves. Hopefully, they'll be weeded out. Being a police officer doesn't make us any less human than anyone else. As for emptying a magazine, well I guess that depends on the threat. My first rule of the street is; I'm going home when the shift is over. Enough of that though, that isn't what this discussion is about. As to right handed decoys, what I said was, most decoys are right handed. It was in response to your claim that 90% of law enforcement decoys used their left arm. I made no statement that the left arm wasn't used, I said it was my experience that most decoys were right handed, and they tend to use that arm. You have to go back to the rest of this discussion as we were discussing why, many times the suit isn't used. Not that this is how all police trainers train their dogs. If all the decoy has is a sleeve, you bet your bippy it's his job to make sure the dog hits the sleeve. If not, you have to get another decoy, get that one to the ER and start all over. What am I thinking? Well sir, I'm thinking several things at the moment, but mostly I'm thinking, why would I train a dog to hit a specific spot, when you don't know what spot will be available. More often than not, in a real situation, the suspect have very little training on how to properly present a target to a dog. I'm not going for points, I'm going for an apprehension. I don't care if it's pretty. I want the dog to hit, hit hard, hang on until I tell him to quit. If he gets knocked off the bite, I fully expect him to reengage and hang on, etc, etc, etc. I don't recall me saying anything about hanging on with canines, I don't believe Howard said that either, but I'll let him speak for himself. I don't know about living in a different time than you, however I do know what's expected of a police working dog. I did say it's the decoys job to put the sleeve in the dog's mouth, I'll say it again, if you like. I would like to ask you a question though, what department do you work for, and how many deployments on tweakers etc have you made? Just curious.

DFrost

" would like to ask you a question though, what department do you work for, and how many deployments on tweakers etc have you made? Just curious"

Lance, I'm also interested in this - we've been discussing Police Canines pretty much for the past three pages, do you have that much experience as an officer?

Also, if you think that you know how "90%" of decoys and helpers do things, you're kidding yourself.

Howard; I like your last post. I agree with most of it. I did get the posts mixed, I find it hard to reply on the web, way to easy to be miss under stood. I am very passionate about dogs and training them. I am a contractor by trade. I started in schutzhund and then moved to PSA. In my travel I have had the chance to train with several people that maintain PSD. The club I am in now trains several times a year with PSD. No I have not been in the line of fire as you have. I am a father and husband of 21 years. I could go on about my experieces with dog training but I dont think it makes any difference. Other than my apology what else would you like to hear. lance

Lance,

I wasn't even looking for an apology. Thank you anyway. My main beef is unknown persons posting critical information on a Police K9 section of the board. Sport is nice but it's not going to kill you unless something very drastically goes wrong. When people post information regarding Police dogs it HAS to be correct. Believe it or not, there are rookie handlers who read this board trying to expand their knowledge base and this is not the place for bad or sketchy information.

Look forward to conversing again on a more friendly note.

Howard

I trained with Reno PD several years ago, They were training all their dogs as leg biters, Renee (Sargossa)sp was the trainer at the time, mostly mals he was not a police man but yet had a philosophe both france and Reno and other departments liked and believed in. There are several trainers in ca. that are not police man and train and maintain PSD, some of whom I have had the oportunity to train with. By the question of what department I work for, it sounds like if your not a cop you can't possibly know how to train a PSD. I would imagine that many of the military trainers are not on the field of combat. Does that mean they too dont know how to train military dogs? I can see that this is not ever going to be resolved, to much to write and to many ways to be miss under stood. You will continue with your way of thought, As I continue in my search for experience and knowledge I will change as my current belief is proven wrong. I am open minded enough to know that whether a leg biter, arm biter, inner arm (pocket). They are all an exceptable place of attack and depending on the department the dogs will be taught a dominate target. Arguing the samantics on the web is a wate of time. The only thing two trainers can agree on is to disagree. I do agree with David that if I were in a fight for my life I would want my dog to do his job regardless of where he bit and how many times, or how pretty it was and I would not want him to stop until I told him. David you should ask your friends in Ca. about the proceedures, I live in a county that is find and bite and, a city that is bark and hold. In the city the policy is the dog can not be released unless the officer is in a confontation. One department was going to get rid of there dogs unless they could prove the dogs werent V------ and could be called off. Ca. is a very political state, if it were'nt for the fact the city council thinks dogs are good for PR my town would'nt eaven have dogs. If you havent figured it out I am active in city politics. Lance

PS didnt know this was a police forum, not sure how I even found it. Lance

 Quote: lance_wright

PS didnt know this was a police forum, not sure how I even found it. Lance

If you scroll to the top of your screen, on the left, you see this:

Leerburg.com » Forums » Police K9 » Training Police Service Dogs

That indicates which part of the Leerburg board you're reading.

Also, on the "Active Topics" page, you will see next to each thread "Subject," the "Forum" where the thread was posted.

And again, the O.P.'s question involved PSDs (and PPDs and sports dogs); questions about each are best answered by people experienced in each.

 Quote: Lance_Wright

If you havent figured it out I am active in city politics. Lance

You have a proof-reader for your campaign signs, right?