I have three boxers; one two yoa male, one 1 yoa female, and one 6week female. All three are on straight BARF. The pup we grind her bones for now, but are slowly making them courser, but are still pretty fine. The adults are easy. Both are very active, so I just buy whole raw chickens (about 4lb) and give it to them right out of the wrapper. HEB has them for abou .60/lb. They get it all, neck, back, wings, legs, hearts, and other organs on the inside. I also supplement with vitamins and minerals. I use fasttrack which aids in digestion (similar to feeding large amounts of yogurt). My dogs are in excellent shape, teeth are great, and its very quick and easy. About once or twice a week, I feed pureed veggies (no onion), with ground meat. I've found a lot less bloat, and my vet even stated he's had more dogs die from choking on kibble than on raw bones (infact zero from RAW bones). Other thing to keep in mind, most of your vet schools are funded by commercial dog food companies, so they get a biased opinion on feeding kibble instead of BARF. Makes sense to me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Okay. This is a reply to some of the questions I see about feeding raw meat and raw bones. I was concerned about this myself too, but it is a better diet for most/all dogs.

1. Cooking destroys valuable nutrients and especially enzymes found in raw foods.

2. Bones help clean a dog's teeth well and have calcium, phosphorous, and other essential vitamins and minerals dogs need. They are to be fed raw, but those who wish to cook them until they are soft to where they crumble, if they every do, but you can grind up bones to make a powder that's called Bone Meal which breaks the bones down to fine dust that can be easily feed to the dog. However, when a bone is cooked, it loses much of its nutritional value and the marrow is often lost too.

3. Hours and chewing provide excellent stimulation to the gums and mouth without the bone splinting and lodging into the throat, although you should supervise when feeding even raw bones anyway.

*Most kibbled dog foods lead to the teeth turning yellow then black later on and can result in bad "doggie" breath.

RAW FOOD:

It does or can contain bacteria an parasites. But after a dog's eaten stuff out of the dirt and all, they should have similar if not the same type of digestive system and characteristics as most wild dogs like wolves. Revival Animal Health offers a product by WYSONG called Call of the Wild that contains probiotics and oligosaccharides which help prevent food-bourne illness from raw foods if any are to occur for those who are worried about raw meat, but the raw diet is the best diet you can find out there and is health in done right. The cave man had to eat raw meat before he discovered fire and look where we humans are now. Preservatives and too much of this and that and additives, etc., and we're not all that healthy. Not to say for us to eat raw meat but we can tolerate most raw fruits and veggies.

They also offer a product called PDG which enhances the value of commercial dog food.

Here are some helpful websites:
http://www.revivalanimal.com
http://www.tiarapoodles.com

Julie Borst owns the poodle website and explains about the raw diet and bones issue. See her list of what she feeds since it is similar to that of the Leerburg diet. I recommend that you stick with the Leerburg diet though as it is for most working and service dogs and it is the only diet I trust out there with the exception of supplemental dog kibble dog food WELLNESS. Her diet is listed mainly for making your own raw poodle food, but it has helped in getting over much of the fear of feeding raw, which raw is far more healthy as long as it is done right as I mentioned earlier.

If there is any new information or I am wrong about something I said in here I would gladly like to listen to other opinions as to what to feed dogs so I can get the 'real' facts I need so I will have this diet thing down good without making any mistakes I'll regret later when feeding my dog.

Paula,
I don't see how Julie's basic introductory list is all that different from many of the others I have seen out there. Remember, it's the quantity of food and the type of meat protein you might vary depending on the size of your dog and how many calories each dog would need to stay in optimum condition. A hard working dog regardless of the breed would definately need more food than a more sedentary animal.
BUT, I don't think there's a special brand of "poodle" food. :rolleyes:
My standard (poodle that is) now eats a BARF meal and it looks like the same kind of stuff Ed is feeding his dogs. Just a smaller amount.
He now loves his raw meaty bones! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am spending $20.00 for a Euckanuba(sp?)type dry dog food. (33 lbs. of it from PetSmart, it is called Authority).

How much do you all suppose I would be spending if I were to feed All natural? I have asked 2 grocery stores if they sell chicken or turkey necks, they said that they did not sell it. Where do you get this stuff?

Sincerly,
Nose hair curled lady (due to toxic waste gas coming from my GSDs.)

Authority has a LOT of filler. I know because I feed it to my cat (it is the lowest calorie per cup cat food that's over the counter). Judging by the amount of Authority I would have had to feed Auster when I was looking into it, I think you could do a raw diet for the same price or less if you found a source for bulk meat.

Even if you don't go raw, buy better quality kibble. Gas is a major contributor to bloat. Also look for the underlying cause of the gas in your animals (for example, IBD, food sensitivity, etc.) because it can sometimes be genetic (didn't you just breed your female?).

Well, you're right, Melissa. I guess Julia's diet is pretty much the same as the Leerburg diet with maybe a few extra ingredients. When I saw it saying 'poodle food' I thought that the diet was a diet recommended mostly for poodles. But it sounds alike and also a good diet to feed. That's good feeding the raw meaty bones. I just want to scream when my father feeds my mother's dog 'cooked bones'. I need to get my mother to try feeding raw meaty bones and the all natural diet to Sammy and all he gets is canned dog food (YUCK!) I wouldn't eat that if I were a dog. (We need to switch him to the raw diet thing before it's too late.) Just a reminder. I think the poodle won last year, you'll want to watch The Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show Feb. 11th and 12th at 7p.m. or whenever it comes on USA East and West. Don't miss it! It's going to be great!!

I have read every word of this and find most of it hard to use, difficult to understand or simple, unsubstantiated conjecture. Does any one have a simple to follow recipe with easy to procure indredients? I live in a rural part of our state (AZ) and finding any thing truley organic, to include the free range cattle that surround us, is nearly impossible.

What is the theory behind feeding or not feeding grains? Having Trooper and Tina dining on steak tartar is expensive.

What about approximate serving sizes and proportions? Art the turkey / chicken necks every one is feeding; raw again? One of my dogs is 12 and taking well to the best simulation of a natural diet I can imposter. My 3 year ols is getting lean to the point of concern despite the size of portions. Has anyone done a cost analysis? What about serving size comparisons between conventional commercial food and the raw diets? I will order the book recommended earlier in this thread but I am reluctant to get further
overwhelmed. I really want to do the best I can afford to for my two dogs but simplicity in the whole nutritional arena is painfully absent. Rest assured, after reading Goldstein's book, I will never go back to traditional commercail foods. Thanks. G.

Morning All,
Well it’s a real hive of information out there in internet land. For every article indorsing the raw method of feeding I can find one listing the reasons why not to. So the message is, do your research form both sides of the fence and when you think you’re finished, do it all over again. Ultimately the decision has to be yours and yours alone. One thing I’m sure off be it Raw or a top quality natural feed. Everyone is trying to do their best for their pet.

Two sites that may help you with quantities/calories to feed are included here. I don’t think I’m breaking any rule by posting them, if so I’m sure I will be notified at which time, please feel free to e-mail me.
http://www.rawdogranch.com/how_much.htm

http://www.frii.com/~phouka/dogs/dog_main.html

Good sources from my research to get your meats: See if you have an abattoir fairly close to you. Or if your willing to drive a little find one and buy in bulk.

Speak with your local supermarket, ask if you pre pay would they consider ordering for you.

When at the supper market, you can speak with the produce manager about buying fruits and vegetables that are going to be with drawn from the shelf as they are over ripe or simply a little bruised.

Above all as I said do your research. Supplements are going to be needed. Again you will want to research. I have come to the conclusion that as there is still not enough laws in place as to claims companies make or enough done to ensure that the purity and amounts stated on their bottles is accurate that for now supplements made for human consumption is the way to go. Also most vets even if opposed to raw feeding will be happy to help you work out the amounts required. If not, get a new vet. Personally with the price of good vet care these days, I expect my vet to have some knowledge in this area, not an expert but at lest a working knowledge.

Lastly I would add after doing all the research getting advice from your vet, relax, I’m sure my diet isn’t all it’s suppose to be every day, nor do I guess is my dogs. But I figure I’m doing the best I can to supply him with all that he needs just as I would one of my children. So take some time out just to enjoy your dog, confident in the fact that your doing the best you can.

Good luck in your research, and let us know if you turn up anything extra interesting.

Regards Pam

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hello, I've fed the barf diet for many years. If you read the book you'll see that feeding raw with kibble is not in the dogs best interest. I feed chicken wings and backs and smaller turkey backs to my dog. If I can't chop the bones in half with my cleaver, I don't use them. I throw a bunch of leftover raw vegetable ends and occasionally an egg (whole) into the blender and blend . I pour it over the chicken wings in the dog bowl and voila. Dinner in an instant. It's important to read the book and not try to wing it. There's alot of do's and don'ts. I travelled accross country with my dog and kept frozen chicken wings in a cooler and opened up a can of beans for filler.(without additives) He travelled for 6 days on this diet till we got home. So even travelling was easy.