I just have a quick question for Benjamin ..

When have you witnessed the behavior of a really, truly WILD dog "pack" ? Where, also? A pack can be one gigantic group of dogs, a pack interacts with its own pack, strange dogs singularly and in multiples can and will become part of an existing pack. Get two rival packs and things are not all rainbows and lollipops.

African Wild Dogs have packs. A pack is a group of animals that coexist together and have a rank structure, a heirarchy. Just because wolves tend to not be in large packs does not make them more pack oriented or territorial than a much larger group of dogs. A pack is a pack, no matter the size of it. African Wild Dogs are also beings of their environment, their ranking and heirarchy is tailored to their survival in their own environment.

Dogs are pack animals. Rank is something every single one of them deals with as it is natural for the dog. Either you are in charge or you are not. This applies to humans, other dogs, and other animals that dog may encounter. So very much of a dog's temperament, attitude, and life depends on it's "place." Some dogs are naturally submissive, some are naturally dominant. How a dog interacts with everything around it is initially determined by this - and is molded/refined by that dogs environment and it's experiences to get you an action or reaction to various stimuli etc.

Ah and back to the OP! I think socialization is huge, IMO, but I would never trust a vet to "groom" my "perfect puppy." I agree with early socialization, but I do not get my pups until 3 months of age - I have a pup kept with the parents until 12 weeks of age. I start socialization to strangers at around 4-5 months, depending on the dog, but I never have a stranger do something that I myself have not done first with the dog to know its reaction. I don't have my pups around children until basic OB is well under way at 6-9 months.

This vet deal may be a viable option for people that don't know what they are doing when it comes to socialization, or people that are lazy. It is a very unfortunate fact that people get dogs whether or not they have the time, money, or knowledge to take care of it. If those dogs in those homes can get any help in socialization or training from qualified sources, then I say yay, lets get these dogs learned!

I dearly wish that I was as elequent as the Jennifers, Sarah, Amber, the Carols, Angelique, Polly, Yuko, Connie, Jenni, Howard, Mike and so many others on this board. You would not believe how many times I have read such excelent posts on this board that I want to post just to say "What she/he said"! (I dared not start a thread with this because it is not really dog related, but I did want to let you guys know what I thought).

We may not always agree, but I can always count on you to explain your position so I can understand it.

 Quote: susan tuck

You would not believe how many times I have read such excelent posts on this board that I want to post just to say "What she/he said"! (I dared not start a thread with this because it is not really dog related, but I did want to let you guys know what I thought).

We may not always agree, but I can always count on you to explain your position so I can understand it.

Same here.

Thanks Susan, that's kind of you to say!

I just about always agree with you... and for the record, I often wish I was as concise in my thoughts as you. I suspect that many of my wordier posts just get skipped over 'cause of their length

Heh, Yuko you write post-it sized notes compared to me LOL I am long winded and I know it, but I just can't seem to help it. The length of my shortest posts tend to be the size of other members longest ones.

Thanks Susan, I learn tons here myself, every day! I am just not happy unless I am learning something.

Susan, I can always count on you to say it like it is! You don't sugarcoat anything and I love that about you. Hats off to you, too, Jenni, for the same reason. Sometimes I read a post and think to myself..."Ooo, just WAIT 'till Susan and Jenni get ahold of this!"