Quote: William Stausing

I'm kicking myself for not asking these questions early. There is so much to learn that some sometimes it feels overwhelming.
I'm just going to keep plucking away at all of the knowledge you all have... Thanks for the help!!!

Here are a few links to get you started:

http://www.leerburg.com/diet.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/diet2.htm

 Quote: janice jarman

Kidneys are an organ, like liver and lungs. I think you want to go easy on the organ meat because it's so fatty (?).
Tongue is muscle meat, like heart and it's usually quite inexpensive.

I was under the impression that "organ" meat was just rich in nutrients, not necessarily fat... they SHOULD be a part of any good raw diet, but they are not "muscle" meat, which you can feed in much larger quantities (organ meat should be between 10-15% of the meal, do I have that right Connie?). I also thought heart kind of played both roles, as it is a great big muscle, but it also packs a punch of extra nutrients that plain muscle meat doesn't... but I've been wrong before.

And aren't poultry gizzards made up of organs? I usually treat these as the organ part of my meals (when I feed gizzards) and use another source for muscle meat. I suppose this is all complicated when you're only feeding a PARTIAL raw diet that is based on something more complete, like THK...

~Natalya

 Quote: natalya zahn

aren't poultry gizzards made up of organs? I usually treat these as the organ part of my meals (when I feed gizzards) and use another source for muscle meat. I suppose this is all complicated when you're only feeding a PARTIAL raw diet that is based on something more complete, like THK...~Natalya

I'm not familiar with "partial raw"; but otherwise, chicken gizzards and hearts are muscle meat, the same as beef hearts. Those meats, plus hamburger and some ground turkey, make up my muscle meat menu.

Also, I feed about 5% organ meat (usually in their supper meal).

Oops, never saw Connie's post. Understand the partial and supplemented now.

That's what I meant about the organ meats, you want to feed less because they are so rich. Not fatty. That's why I put the question mark, I couldn't figure out the word I wanted to use. I thought gizzard and hearts were considered muscle meat when figure portions and livers, kidneys and lungs were considered organs.
In the Leerburg diet, when they describe proportions for each meal, hearts and gizzards are included in the muscle meat portions and liver/kidneys in the organs.

HI Jan!, Happy Holidays....and to everyone !
I think in raw we have to remember that the % of each parts are less important then variety in a raw diet.You know some wild canines at times only get organ meats and other times more meat then bones and etc.. and that is fine , but variety is the key to a good raw diet.
I was at the Library and read a book about Dingos peaked at their feeding habits,I have read so many books already about the feeding hhabits,and what I read was most of the wild canines never eat the same things everyday and I think sometimes we are so worried about the way we have to divide the parts that we forget that ,really, it's not important.

Really good point that it's balance OVER TIME we are aiming for.

I suspect (actually, I know ) that wolves who take down a big ruminant do indeed eat that same ol' thing for days, until it's gone, as long as there is no dangerous nearby competition, but I get your point completely.

Variety is GREAT. And it's EASY if you think outside the box. I do use poultry for just about all the RMB part, but the muscle meat part can range from fish (including canned) to bison to lamb to ostrich. Even just doing beef with poultry plus some plain live-culture yogurt gives three very different amino acid profiles...... which is GOOD.

 Quote: angelique cadogan

HI Jan!, Happy Holidays....and to everyone !
I think in raw we have to remember that the % of each parts are less important then variety in a raw diet.You know some wild canines at times only get organ meats and other times more meat then bones and etc.. and that is fine , but variety is the key to a good raw diet.
I was at the Library and read a book about Dingos peaked at their feeding habits,I have read so many books already about the feeding hhabits,and what I read was most of the wild canines never eat the same things everyday and I think sometimes we are so worried about the way we have to divide the parts that we forget that ,really, it's not important.

Angelique - you are very, VERY right!!

It's so easy to get carried away with details sometimes - especially when you (we/us - as raw feeders) get a lot of flack from our vets and other "professionals" for not feeding something mundanely "balanced", like kibble... makes you want to scrutinize and make sure you're doing the best for your dog...

but of course, at the end of the day, any type of varied fresh/raw diet is better for our dogs than those kiln-baked, extrusion formed, fodder filled "alternatives"....

And Happy Holidays to you too!

~Natalya

HI Connie!
You know ever since you talked about the yogurt, I have always added it to my dogs feed.A good thing. I always tell individuals that I help with raw diet , is that, organs don't have to be given everyday, great if you do, but if you can't as long as at some point you give it it will be fine. Organs in a fresh kill is so full of blood , so desirable to predators, those organs and the fresh blood do such a wonder for the predators, great to boost their immune system and many other benefits. Unfortunately we can't replicate that 100 % of the time but at least we can give them the Organs. I have found that the beef liver is far bloodier then the other livers that is found in the stores.I think , and you might agree with me here is that many people that feed raw or entertain the thought of doing so , don't understand why you feed bones, why you need the organs why you need the fat and so on.We tell them( in general)and most website I see tell you WHAT to FEED and HOW MUCH but hardly ever tell you why and what are the benefits , why some parts are so important to growing dogs , or old dogs , sick dogs, competition level dogs etc... I feel that is where we loose the future Rawers...And you know what most that feed Raw could not answer those questions..
Thanks Natalya! your dog looks great, athletic...NICE

 Quote: angelique cadogan

... many people that feed raw or entertain the thought of doing so , don't understand why you feed bones, why you need the organs why you need the fat and so on.We tell them( in general).... and most website I see tell you WHAT to FEED and HOW MUCH but hardly ever tell you why and what are the benefits , why some parts are so important to growing dogs , or old dogs , sick dogs, competition level dogs etc...

That is a REALLY good point.

It is SUCH a good point that I would invite anyone who is feeding fresh raw food (or just thinking about it) and who isn't sure why the bones are crucial, or why grain-heavy foods are so inappropriate for dogs, or why dogs' need for fat is so different from our own, or why saturated (animal) fats are not the coronary challenge for dogs that they are for us, or why dogs have so little problem with pathogens in raw meats...... I would invite them to ask on this board, because this board has so much knowledge and experience with raw feeding.

And I betcha that even if questions are asked that none of us know the answers to, we will find them.

And you also make a great point about special considerations for growing, senior, sick, etc., dogs.

And what you said about bones might be the biggest point you make, because it scares me that people sometimes decide to "go raw," and do it by tossing their kibble and giving the dog boneless hamburger. Period.