Doug Williams Webboard User Reg: 12-17-2007
Posts: 75
Loc: Trussville Alabama
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I am not saying dont use them. Im just saying dont rush it .please read the Reina Vom Haus williams thread this is my main focus at the moment.I assume you do forced retrieves?
Doug Williams Webboard User Reg: 12-17-2007
Posts: 75
Loc: Trussville Alabama
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i believe in motivation as Mr Frawley does but not all dogs can do this so thats why Ed made the video for forced retrieve.Sure your gonna have situations in which you need the e-collar all Im saying is make it your last resort. Dr. Reisner says that all dogs will get the shock eventually and i agree i just make it my last option. David i respect your opinion and Im open minded so please educate me. Im the kind off trainer that can take what you teach me apply it to other ideas to try to make other options.
Reg: 08-17-2007
Posts: 528
Loc: La Habra, California
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Doug: I'm basically of Ed's school of thought. During the correction phase (which only comes after motivational teaching and distraction building) I will use a tool to correct a dog. I think in a lot of cases the eCollar is the most effective tool for this phase of obedience, and I always want to use the most effective tool first. I know you don't have a problem with prong collars for correction in this phase, I was trying to understand if (and if so, why) you disagreed with the use of the eCollar for the correction phase of training. I understand now that you're talking about avoidance training vs. motivational training, rather than whether or not this tool is appropriate.
I have never really trained a SchH retrieve, but when I do I think it will be motivational. Training a forced retrieve is not consistent with my ideology on dog training.
I have gotten the area trainer for Pet smart into schutzhund gave them a whole new perspective. plus brings new ideas to the table.But the company training policy is based on AKC Obediance
I do AKC obedience and Jerri wears a prong collar. So does my trainers high-in-trial and OTCH Goldens. Lots of AKC people train with them. Biggest problem with Petco anyway and probably Petsmart too is they are scared to do anything that may draw the wrath of Peta on them. The local Petco won't even flush a damn dead fish. They freeze them then a local vet disposes of them properly. Wouldn't it be just too funny if the vet picks em up then takes them to his clinic and fluuuushhh.
Doug Williams Webboard User Reg: 12-17-2007
Posts: 75
Loc: Trussville Alabama
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David over the last month we had a dog that would NOT retrieve.we had to force retrieve. The dog is a retrieving fool now. Wallace Payne helped set him straight.
Melissa Thom Webboard User Reg: 12-04-2007
Posts: 2781
Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA
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Quote: lisa kidd
Quote: Doug Williams
I have gotten the area trainer for Pet smart into schutzhund gave them a whole new perspective. plus brings new ideas to the table.But the company training policy is based on AKC Obediance
I do AKC obedience and Jerri wears a prong collar. So does my trainers high-in-trial and OTCH Goldens. Lots of AKC people train with them. Biggest problem with Petco anyway and probably Petsmart too is they are scared to do anything that may draw the wrath of Peta on them. The local Petco won't even flush a damn dead fish. They freeze them then a local vet disposes of them properly. Wouldn't it be just too funny if the vet picks em up then takes them to his clinic and fluuuushhh.
Lisa
Actually this is true. It is also true of most vets I've been at as well. They're actually incinerated at a place licensed to do that kind of stuff. As far as drawing the wrath of Peta that is the primary reason for some of our animal care standards being what they are. Sometimes these policies make sense and I cant imagine why we would behave in any other way. Othertimes it makes me really wonder if they're nuts, mainly with our ability to medicate fish who are beginning to show signs of ich which is a chronic issue in winter. Long story.
As far as E collars it is the best thing I've ever done to get reliable results from my dog offlead. We're all entitled to our opinions though.
Reg: 06-03-2007
Posts: 495
Loc: Englishman, living in Belgium
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This is an interesting Thread, But perhaps some can tell me, If you use an E Collar to get a Dog to recall etc and general obediance,
None have said what the same dog does when he is asked to do these Recalls and such without the use of the E Collar,
Is it so that after training with such a collar for a period of time, and the Dog obeys the handler,
Then i would expect the E Collar to be put in the cupboard and not used, and the dog should then obey its handler as it did with an e collar on
Doug Williams Webboard User Reg: 12-17-2007
Posts: 75
Loc: Trussville Alabama
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Well in this situation the dog is retrieving with the e-collar on still he gets a stim rite before he retrieves to increase the return time eventually we will not have to correct the dog.Do you know who Wallace Payne is Steve?
Doug Williams Webboard User Reg: 12-17-2007
Posts: 75
Loc: Trussville Alabama
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Steve i want to appologise I can only tell you from this point on what i have seen and not what i believe to know.But i am activly watching and learning.
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