Gee guys,
I'll bet I could make an argument for any breed as a perfect example as a family companion and with some reservations as a good work out partner. We all, while we have our own favorite breeds, know given the right nuturing any breed can become a great family addition, some more challenging then others granted, but they all can be a well balanced and happy part of the human experience. So why get our panties all in a wad over one breed being better than another for this or that?
Lets hear from the Malinois owners the challenges of making a pet out of what is essentially a hard working breed (as I am lead to understand them to be).

If I'm not learning, I'm not paying attention.
Randy

 Quote: david eagle

Is this the first dog that you've owned? A Malinois, as a breed, will tend to be a very sharp dog. They will use their mouths more than some other breeds, they will have more prey drive and are generally "sharper", more willing to take matters into their own hands. Unless you are an experienced handler, I don't think a malinois is the optimal breed for your situation.

A Malinois is a handful, making most of the pet dogs in America look like lazy bums. Though each litter and each pup varies, a malinois will tend to be the kind of dog that needs an experienced, consistent pack leader who understands structure and has a tremendous amount of patience. They do not have as much tolerance as some other breeds, for our silliness.

I think a well bred Border Collie, or a Golden Retriever from field lines will serve you better, and make a more pleasant pet and companion, than would a Malinois, for your specific desires.

I would say border collie is not for an average person who likes to sit at home and do nothiing all day! Border collie can drive anyone CRAZY just like a Malinois.

I have never own a malinois, but my sister has a border collie who does agility. I have seen a several malinois at Michael Ellis's seminars. The funny thing was that everyone was so against the idea of me having a cane corso for french ring or mondioring. They told me that I should do it with a malinois or dutch shepherd. They just know I won't go that far, but my problem is I can't stand some malinois. They are way too much for me like Border Collie and Australian shepherd.

A golden retirever is going to be a good companion dog for family who likes to relax more at home.

 Quote: Carol Boche

 Quote: ALEX KUPRATTY

Hey y'all
I am interested on adding a new member to my family in the form of a Malinois. My interest goes beyond companionship as I am a very athletic person and looking for a companion to train with. I am interested on obedience and agility training but want nothing to do with teaching my dog to bite a human. I am a father of a 2 year old boy and his well being is an important concern for my wife and I. Are there competitions out there that do not involve biting and if so what is the right age to begin training a puppy?

Alex,

Why a Malinois? What has brought you to this breed?
All puppies are going to bite, nip and play. This is where pack leadership comes in. And it HAS to be FIRM and STRONG for the Mals.

Yes Alex,

Why a Malinois??

I have 2 young kids as well 4 and 6 so it was paramount that my dog could live with them. I had quite an uphill battle in the beginning with my dog when she was a pup. She was all over anything that moved and I didn't have a lot of experience with the breed. Sure I read all the BS internet info about how easy they were to train, how smart they are and all the rest of that propaganda. But none of that prepared me for the (cartoon character) tasmanian devil that a Malinois puppy can be.

The thing I found with my Mal is she is so driven you have to use that drive in a way that will be to your advantage. In keeping that the drive is not a bad thing you have to focus that drive into something positive and both you and the dog will be rewarded. I say that as I know a lot of people just don't know how to deal with that level of elevated drive and it scares the crap out of them. Border Collies are on that same wavelength for example. You really need to be in tune with a dog that is driven like that or else they just go and eat furniture or make their own fun usually at the owners expense. This is why new unsuspecting driven breed owners their dogs end up back at the breeders or worse in a shelter when the owner figures out they can't deal with it.

Mals IMHO are better suited for more motivational/positive training than with hard corrections. Another thing with Mals is the initial groundwork as a pup really shapes the adult dog. With this type of dog you have to be prepared to do your groundwork correctly.

 Quote: Carol Boche

And it HAS to be FIRM and STRONG for the Mals.

 Quote: Geoff Empey

you have to be prepared to do your groundwork correctly.

that's what you meant eh Carole? Especially having a young child in the house it is the only way! What you put in you will get out.

This is what I'd do introducing a new driven breed pup to a house with kids.

1. Read and practice Mr Frawley's ground work articles.
2. Keep the pup tied to me in the house and on a long line outside.
3. Make ground work rules for the kids (age appropriate) interaction with the dog based on the dog's ground work rules and enforce them.
4. No high excitement rough housing between the kids and pup.
5. Keep all interaction with the kids positive and controlled. Play fetch or other fun kid (age appropriate) dog games.
6. When in doubt keep the dog in the crate.

I know some people have mentioned other breeds that are not as driven such as Tervs or BCs. Though dealing with kids all of these dogs are herding breeds and will if the groundwork is not done properly will herd your kids especially if the dog is young, YMMV. Another Belgian dog breed with a softer drive than a Mal which really impressed me on seeing one in person was a Lakenois it looks a lot like a Malinois but has a wire coat not unlike a Airedale, we have one in our French Ring club and it is a real nice dog.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider a Malinois but it is a lot more work than your garden variety Golden Retriever or Lab! Especially as a family dog. That being said my Malinois at 17 months has become a wonderful member of the family, I couldn't ask for a better dog for my family but I did have my eyes opened wide getting to that point. I am very happy with my Malinois.

 Quote: Geoff Empey

 Quote: Carol Boche

And it HAS to be FIRM and STRONG for the Mals.

 Quote: Geoff Empey

you have to be prepared to do your groundwork correctly.

that's what you meant eh Carole? Especially having a young child in the house it is the only way! What you put in you will get out.

Pretty much, yes.
IMHO, with a Mal, positive,motivational training works better, however, depending on the dog, sometimes you have to correct. And you have to be ready for that not to mention willing to learn to do it correctly.

 Quote: Lindsay Janes

I would say border collie is not for an average person who likes to sit at home and do nothiing all day! Border collie can drive anyone CRAZY just like a Malinois.

Totally on the mark Lindsay! People see these dogs on Topdogs on TV, at a trial or whatever. But don't realize the work to get to that point, let alone the work on top of that just to live with a driven breed.

One thing different though about a border collie vs a Mal is the BC crumples under hard corrections a BC is a lot softer than a Mal in that regard. Even though they operate at the same type of athletic level, they are from a mental makeup different breeds.

Edited by Geoff Empey (12/23/2007 09:19 PM)
Edit reason: added comment about BCs

This thread has taken some interesting turns since my initial reply! Wow! Great info on the different Belgian breeds.

I agree that a Border Collie can be as high intensity as a Mal, and it may not be able to "Cool down" in the house. A good retriever (as mentioned) will be able to cool down. My concern for the OP is that he not buy a dog based on looks. The Malinois is a very sharp dog, if your only goal is competition obedience or agility there is very little reason to invest in that kind of headache, there are simply better breeds for the things he talks about wanting out of a dog.

I hope the OP will chime in and provide us with a little more insight into his needs, motivations, and level of experience, so that we can fine tune our advice!

 Quote: David Eagle

This thread has taken some interesting turns since my initial reply!

That is an understatement....

Wow... four pages of dialogue with no input from the OP. I wonder where he went....?

 Quote: david eagle

EDIT: I don't know if you were trying to imply this or not, but it is a common misconception so let me address it. In my limited experience, a dog trained in bitework (biting a human) is much less likely to bite someone than an untrained dog.

I think the biggest thing here to remember is that any dog can and may bite, no matter what the breed.
My dogs bite all the time, toys, tugs ect...

A misdirected bite may be construed as a bite, only because the handler/owner or person that is bitten does not understand dog behavior.

For instance, Rock was at the office, an employee came in that goes and hides for Rock so he knows the man, Rock was excited to see the guy and took the guy his tug. No biggie, laid it at the guys feet and stepped back, staring at the tug.
The guy reached down to get the tug and Rock pounced to grab the tug away (this is a game they play when Rock finds him) and Rock accidentally got his hand. Rock jumped away looking embarrassed, the guy laughed and it was all good and he got Rock to come grab the tug.

Total accident, however, some would freak out and say "OMG he bit me!!" because they just do not know any better.

I agree that a dog trained to bite is less likely to bite than an untrained dog.
But this OP sounds like he wants a good family pet that will also be an active partner with him.
I just do not see a Mal "fit" with him to be honest, since, he has his child's best interest at the forefront of his thoughts.

Belgians, BC's or anything out of the "herding" breeds are going to be more apt to try and herd the child and probably see the child as a pack mate and not a human leader. Especially if it is really HIGH drive.

The Terv is maybe less likely than a Mal, but they do have an off-switch. This version of the Belgian would be a better choice than a Mal if the OP just has to have a Belgian variety.

Without input from him it is difficult to say.

I would tend to recommend, if the OP is a newer dog owner, that he go with a Golden Retriever or a Lab (chocolate preferably, they are my favorites out of the Labs ) and, we have had great luck with chocolates being great companion and kids dogs and a great hunter. The blacks and yellows that we had were not the best "family" dogs. Not sure why as any color could ultimately have any color.
Marley is terrible around kids. not in an aggressive bite kind of way, but a "ooops sorry, didn't see you there and sorry I knocked you down" kind of way. He will mellow with maturity, hopefully, but he is just HIGH powered "gotta go, gotta go, gotta go" in a goofy Lab kind of way.

 Quote: carol boche

 Quote: david eagle

EDIT: I don't know if you were trying to imply this or not, but it is a common misconception so let me address it. In my limited experience, a dog trained in bitework (biting a human) is much less likely to bite someone than an untrained dog.

I think the biggest thing here to remember is that any dog can and may bite, no matter what the breed.
My dogs bite all the time, toys, tugs ect...


Belgians, BC's or anything out of the "herding" breeds are going to be more apt to try and herd the child and probably see the child as a pack mate and not a human leader. Especially if it is really HIGH drive.

What David says for sure, unfortunate to say though a bite trained dog is viewed as a liability from the uneducated publics view and it is hard to break that stereotypical view.

I see people at French Ring who show up to watch. They see the FRIII dogs pound on the decoys and come off the field and play with someone's Yorkshire Terrier being totally gentle. Those people are in shock after seeing that.

I'd like to touch on the 'herding' aspect as well. I found after my initial Sheep herding sessions that my Mal got particularly bossy with my kids. Coincidence? I don't think so. It just brought out that behaviour in her and she tried to push those boundaries. We had to set up a scenario with a long line and the prong to stop that pronto!