Good post, John. One thing I will comment on is the wolfdog breedings. According to Jiri, those were done w/z PS dogs, but they were (supposedly) done OUTSIDE the z PS kennel, ie, it was an outside program that did use some z PS dogs.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Good post, John. One thing I will comment on is the wolfdog breedings. According to Jiri, those were done w/z PS dogs, but they were (supposedly) done OUTSIDE the z PS kennel, ie, it was an outside program that did use some z PS dogs.

I agree with you Jenni & trust Jiri's statement, just to clarify my previous statement. The wolf-dog project was abandoned, for a reason, namingly b/c it didn't produce viable results. I cite this when people inquire about the usefullness of the Czech Wolfdog as a working dog.

Jenni,
You have it 100% correct.
I would never, ever say that biting is bad and not part of the work that these dogs do. In her Slovak breed survey she was rated as highly as a dog can be rated in bitework. From Mike's post I feel that he believes it is the only criteria. It sounds exactly like someone that is infatuated with over the top West German working lines. What is so great about having an 18 month old dog that can not be trusted around children.
I don't know what he does with his dogs, but, if it is Schutzhund I find his post even more funny because the amount of time a dog is actually biting in a Schutzhund competition amounts to about 20 seconds total on a sleeve.
Mike, where did I say that my dog is the greatest? If you knew anything about me you would know that a statement like that is the furthest thing from what I am all about. You are correct though, I do enjoy my dogs quite a lot. I enjoy that they get to be dogs and run around and play with each other and fight with each other and when they are done I am not cleaning up blood or taking one of them to the vet to be put back together. I also enjoy the fact that they can do there bite work and when they are done they know how to turn it off.
What is it that you do with your dogs? I am not familiar with your work. Are you in the military, a police officer, SAR or do you compete in Schutzhund. I am trying to figure out why you need the type of dog that you profess to need. The dogs that you mentioned in your second post are sport dogs. They are working line dogs that compete in a sport, not working dogs.
I have a friend here that was a dog handler in the military here in the U.S. He and his wife take in retired military dogs. Some of them were attack dogs. They live very peacefully in his home.
I also have a friend here that was in the Czech Army and handled border patrol dogs. They did not want dogs that couldn't live in a home. This is because they bred dogs to be complete dogs, not, completely nuts.
One of my friends owns the dog that was Universal Sieger. I am sure much more accomplished than any of your dogs. He lays on the couch and watches TV with her, AND, Oh my god, he is out of SHOW LINES!!!
As for your friend that breeds Dutch Shepherds in Holland. Who cares? We have so many dogs over here we don't need his dogs. My guess is that if he was the greatest breeder of these dogs everyone worldwide would know who he is and they would be paying top dollar for them.
If biting is the most important thing in a dog why not get in to a bully breed. They have the fullest, calmest grips I have ever seen.

Wow, I thought this was going to be a good thread about Czech & ZPS Line Dogs. I guess that makes me wrong twice today.

The ZPS Kennel changed names and there have been no dogs named as such in quite some time. Jiri Novotny is one of the most knowledgable people in the world in regards to Czech Dogs and breeding, he also continued the ZPS Lines with his own private kennel "Jipo-Me".

For Czech Dogs, there is no one I trust more than Jiri Novotny in regards to sending you what you asked for and being honest.

I think it is interesting to note that there should be more value placed on the dog and just what he is as a dog than what he is on paper. If he is a super dog and has good health, then his pedigree is secondary to all of those things Czech dog or not.

I'm thinking of taking a trip to Czech later in 2008. I've contacted Jiri at Jinopo to see what trials might be available to see.

 Quote: Art Lavely

I think it is interesting to note that there should be more value placed on the dog and just what he is as a dog than what he is on paper. If he is a super dog and has good health, then his pedigree is secondary to all of those things Czech dog or not

Yep. Good point, Art! I completely agree and it is dismaying that it has only been brought up twice in this whole mess.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

...Soooo, anyway....judge the dog you have in front of you, not it's papers, and not what someone else says the dogs in it's pedigree were or were not. JMO.

Any good links to detailed articles on the Czech dog history? There's one article that Jiri was interviewed for, but any others?

Well, I think Art hit it right on the nail. My post was about the fading of the great z PS dogs. IMHO they are great. I just wanted to hear what people that have owned them, handled them and worked with them had to say.
It's turning into something totally off topic. Sad...

I have a Galant PS daughter that thankfully had a smart breeder. A tiny runt (not just a runt) was destined for a per home. No drive persay showing. Then one day....the light bulb came on and a monster sprung up. LOL The breeder contacted the pet owners (they did not have the pup yet) and explained that this dog was totally unsuitable for a home as a pet, especially one with toddlers wearing diapers. They were offered another pup or full refund. They were upset to say the least. I was looking for a dog for usar and this breeder was working with me. I did not want a pup but had develped a good relationship with them. The devil dog arrived at the age of 3 months old.

She has been more than a handful but I got just the kind of dog I need. We are HRD certified, working on usar and schutzhund. She can't do enough. Tough to live with, you better believe it but I won't have anything other than the RIGHT checz dog again.