Mary I agree with you and Stephanitz. Because of schutzhund, a dog sport, the GSD is today the most used service dog. Think of it this way, earned degrees in dog sports of this ilk are much like a earned degree in university in that both vet the recipient for later work in specific venues. Norman Epstein

To me when the question is do they get put in this or that catagory; working dog or pet with a hobby, I have to start drawing boxes and filling them in. ie. working dogs: sar, service dogs (blind dogs, handicap dogs, seizure dog, etc), the guardians/herding (doing actual herding/guarding everyday and night against actual predators/bad guys), hunter gatherers (I understand there are still people the world who depend on the dog to help supply the larder day to day), and the military/police dog (in all their manifestations, bomb, tracking, enforcment partners, etc), and anything else I might have not thought of where the dog is a key part of getting the job done. Pets with a hobby (I like that, pets with a hobby LOL): I think this can be shortened alot; if one can put the word sport in front of whatever, as in a leisure activity we humans indulge in for whimsy, then I think we can safely say they are pets with a hobby.
Some of us dog owners like to keep the 'working dog lines' because we think those types of dogs have really neat hobbies. LOL!
Jenn, doesn't a ppd have to be well balanced in all its drives? I'd think good training would take a so so prospect a lot farther then poor training would take a top candidate. As for the intensity you mentioned in the ring sports, it's just a matter of focus. The dogs you see in a ring sport that make you go wow would be entirely different animals if the owner decided the dog didn't need a hobby (lol), but had to earn his keep as a valued true working dog be it ppd, tracking, or enforcement, etc.

My 3 cents worth.
Randy



While there dogs I prefer, I make are no value judgements when classifing a working dog here, a sport dog there, or a companion dog at home. They all have a place and purpose to serve.

Randy, I enphaticly(spelling?) agree! I was thinking about it and an example that popped out in my mind (I know it isnt about dogs but I think it applies) is that not all people are or could be Navy Seals, but while they deserve alot of respect for the difficulty of their job and its risks and the intensity of it, that does not mean that people with other jobs like postmen or construction workers, are any less important or that theirs isnt real work.
Personally, I think the same applies to dogs. Alot of our perception of "work" for dogs is based on 100+ year old jobs that dogs were used for. But let me reiterate that I think a lot of companion dogs only serve the purpose of being a companion. nothing wrong with that but I dont consider it work.

 Quote: sandy moore

You crack me up - I almost spit my coffee on my keyboard . I knew what you meant but was being facetious

BRAT....

Here was post #4 by me:
I am just not one to say that my dogs are anything other than trained to do what I ask them to do I guess....

Do I wish for more "work", well to be honest,yes and no. That would mean that there is a lost person" out there that may not be alive. Or it may mean that I am at risk. Do I like the risk factor, well, of course, or I would not do it.

It is a tricky question because some understand my views and there are some that think we pray for calls.....the latter irritates me to be honest.

On the other hand, I would like to work my dogs more since sometimes it gets frustrating because I train and train and we sit and wait......and I try not to let that get to me, due to the fact that it means misfortune to someone else and their family.

Yes, I agree Mary, a companion dogs 'job' is to be a soothing distaction when somebody in the house hold is bored with nothing else do to but pet or throw the ball for the dog. Thats why I would put them in with the sport dogs, or as Jennifer likes to say, pets with hobbies.

My dog sits when she wants to.
Randy

So are we talking "work" from a human perspective or the dogs perspective? A dog doesnt know the difference between training for sport or training for police work. Training is training. The only distinction is that of the human partner. The sport trainer does it for hobby and the police officer does it for work, but the dogs could very well be suited for both and in the dogs mind, training is training, work is work.

I dont see why a sport dog isnt considered a working dog, there is very little difference in what the dog actually does from the dogs standpoint.

I like hearing it from the handlers viewpoint. We all know that the dog probably "thinks" it is working.

for me, working dogs are K9's,PPD's, Detection dogs, SAR dogs, farm dogs(not hunting dogs), Full or nearly full time Herding dogs(maybe a branch off of farm dogs), and service dogs(therapy, and seeing eye, and other service dogs.

Hunting dogs are for me considered sporting dogs, as hunting is a sport, so are schutzhund, and ring sport dogs. So are agility, flyball, dock jumping and weight pulling.

"guard" dogs are their own category-it's tricky because though there are owners who love, play with, etc their guard dogs-that is rare, at least in my area. Most of these dogs are aggressive, bored, very out of shape because they get no exercise, and have zero socialization, not even from the owners. Junk Yard dogs go into this category, along with drug house dogs. They don't do any work-they just fence fight passer-by's, or lunge at the end of a chain. They certainly aren't sporting dogs and are rarely pets.

I personally don't consider back yard/chained up dogs as pets-most are ignored a large portion of the day. They are just animals people have.

pets are, well, pets. They are animals we keep in out homes, care for, take places with us, comfort us when we need it, rejoice with us, and play with us.

I think at the end of the day-even a K-9 is a pet. Some people's pets work, some people's pets are professional athletes, some people's pets are just companions. When your working/sporting dog is off duty, it becomes your pet. When the farmer at the end of the day pats his dog on the head, says good job, and they go sit by the fire while he reads/whatever, that dog becomes a pet again.

most junkyard dogs, drug house dogs and loose yard dogs never get that experience of being companions-so they aren't pets.


*note i am not saying they shouldn't be treated as pets-i think is is heartbreaking how their owners treat them, i would love to see them taken away and rehomed as pets,but while in their current situation, they are not their owners pets.

But Mike that little bit of difference between a working dog and ring sport dog is huge when you think about it. When was the last time you saw a decoy do something completely unpredictable? Say, really hit the dog (hard!) or grab him by the throat and slam the dog on his back, or kick him in the rib good just before the dog takes a bite or maybe jump out of the blind and take the dog on before expected? Just a few simple things off the top, and when thought about could be really extented for pages. And thats just in the ring, so I'm not even going to start about real life stuff.
No body thinks there aren't cross overs. The dogs that can do it all, they're rare, and all the more valuable for it.
Randy

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

So are we talking "work" from a human perspective or the dogs perspective? A dog doesnt know the difference between training for sport or training for police work. Training is training. The only distinction is that of the human partner. The sport trainer does it for hobby and the police officer does it for work, but the dogs could very well be suited for both and in the dogs mind, training is training, work is work.

I dont see why a sport dog isnt considered a working dog, there is very little difference in what the dog actually does from the dogs standpoint.

I thought the question was geared towards the human perspective. I don't know any dogs that think they have hobbies. I don't think dogs give this question much thought.