Norman- So how do you think she should deal with the aggression? Should she use leash corrections? I'm just curious, I have a 8 month old GSD that is fearful of other dogs and acts out aggressively- I have been using leash corrections to let him know its not acceptable and to make him deal with it. I'm not sure its working or not but i know dealing with aggression takes a LONG time to get under control. I have read/heard that you can also use redirection/treats (more positive ways) but I have not tried this yet. I have just been confused on what way to deal with it properly.

Ok, I need to add a statement here, as we're discussing the training of aggressive dogs, which can lead to injury to the handler ( or dog ):

The advice that a poster may recieve on this forum can range from excellent to poor as the expertise level of the people giving advice varies greatly - *anybody* can give advice here and unless it is truely awful or dangerous, Admin or the Mods usually won't intervine.

It's up to the people seeking advice to determine the quality of the advice that they're recieving.

And it's *always* worth your time to try and look through the old threads to review advice given about your question in the past - believe me, someone has asked your very question in past and likely recieved good advice.

Will Rambeau
Moderator

Kathy it depends on why the aggression is taking place. In her case I suggested first that she go to a professional trainer that was experienced in this type behavior. I did however suggest to set up a situation that the dog has reacted to in the past and put the dog on a sit and *enforce* that when the dog first begins to act out. If I couldn't change the dogs focus by enforcing the sit with a flat collar I would go to a pinch collar, put on the correct way. As you said this is not a quick fix as a weak temperament may be playing a part which makes this even more difficult. There are many methods that may work but if I am using a method and it has not worked after a reasonable period of time, I go to another as I don't let myself be trapped by a certain method. I do know this dogs learn more quickly in black and white when you are shaping a behavior and respond more slowly or not at all in shades of grey.

i really was just wondering about the method generally....i wasn't trying for anything else. i was curious about the method from reading the book, as it seemed potentially problematic, and i hadn't found anything when i searched the author

I can get my dog to sit stay and even down stay with other dogs walking around him (I am in a dog obedience class) but when the tables are turned and he is walking around and the other dogs are doing the sit/stay that is his problem. He is on guard and lashes out at them like they are trying to get him, its just confusing how sitting is ok but his moving triggers the aggression.

I know all I can do is keep working with him and trying different ideas(thats why I really enjoy this site)until hopefully one day I find a way that works with him

Good Luck with Teagan Jennifer, I know its hard work but its great that we love our dogs enough to try to make their lives(and ours) better

Mr. Rambeau wrote:

It's up to the people seeking advice to determine the quality of the advice that they're recieving.

That is very difficult for many because, no matter there expertise, those giving the advice have not seen the dog in question or its handler. Until a professional trainer evaluates the dog and the handler most of the advice given here or any public board should be taken with a grain of salt. That why when there are aggression issues, I always suggest first that the handler seek out a profession trainer . I'm sure you agree.

Yep, I'm in full agreement with that statement, Norman.
I almost used that "grain of salt" term myself, so I think that you and I ( and probably many of the more experienced trainers here ) are all aware that this is more of a mental exercise and without actually seeing a dog's behavior, any advice given is general at best.

And the need for a professional trainer ( although I think that there are in fact few dog training professionals that can handle aggression issues effectively ) is a given in a situation like this.
Good luck finding a pro that can actually handle the issue ( although many of them *talk* a good game ), be careful about what you allow someone to do to your dog - get some references and check them *closely* first.

Just so everyone knows, I post that general statement about once every two months or so, depending on how often a thread is being discussed regarding aggression. It's never meant as cut on anybody ( like I said, if the advice is getting awful or dangerous, we'll intervene and we're not shy about doing so - safety is key here )

If you are going to try to train the dog out of this through positive-based methods versus correcting, you need to work with the dog at a very very low arousal threshold. If the dog is tense or starting to act aggressive, take 20 steps backwards -- I'm serious -- and try again.

Can you reward the dog 100' from the fear-eliciting stimulus? 90'? 75'?

I would pick up Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. I don't agree with some of the book but it discusses how to tell if a dog is getting stressed/aroused in a negative way, down to the very subtle signs, and talks about how to determine your dog's threshold and to start by working with the dog under threshold with a high rate of reinforcement and sloooowly push the envelope a little.

 Quote: Kathy West

Norman- So how do you think she should deal with the aggression? Should she use leash corrections? I'm just curious, I have a 8 month old GSD that is fearful of other dogs and acts out aggressively- I have been using leash corrections to let him know its not acceptable and to make him deal with it. I'm not sure its working or not but i know dealing with aggression takes a LONG time to get under control. I have read/heard that you can also use redirection/treats (more positive ways) but I have not tried this yet. I have just been confused on what way to deal with it properly.

With my fear aggressive lab it was a combination of the two that was the most effective. When we were out with people he was corrected for any aggression BUT also received a treat like food or his ball being thrown from the person that he was scared of. Einstein eventually passed his Canine Good Citizen test.

Aggressive dogs should not be dealt with using a pure positive approach IMO. It's too dangerous for the dog to decide later that they would rather attack that dog or person rather than get the piece of food. Combining showing your disapproval for his aggression(corrections) along with teaching them that the source of their aggression is not something they need to get worked up about(re-directing, reward for positive interactions) is the best way to handle it. Some dogs need more of their pack leader telling them to knock it off others will need more rewards for positive interactions. Whatever works for the dog and keeps it safe.

Jennifer...I just finished "Calming Signals" by Turid Rugaas, small book but very interesting. A must read for any dog owner.
My GSD was barking at something last night, I stretched my arms out downward (never up) and it was like shutting off a switch. She relaxed and laid down right away. I have seen these actions between dogs before but never knew they were calming signals, what is amazing is that people can use them to communicate with their dogs. Can't wait to try some more and experiment.

Sandy