Cameron and Jim, excellent thoughts about Cesar and the food aggression. It's true, I know I couldn't just stand there and be bit and not flinch. Valerie, thanks for your experience! Somehow it is comforting to know I'm not the only one in the world going through this. We have been working with our dog since he was a pup, and often receive comments about how good he is (he heels when we walk and sits by our side when we stop to talk to someone.) Little do THEY know also!!!!!!

The thing that has really concerned us about the most recent attacks (on me around his food bowl and around my dad) is that he didn't just bite as if to defend himself. He turned to me and bit my arm, then kept lunging, biting me all the way down my arm to my hand (he knocked me off balance and I fell backward.) It was so scary, because it became more like an attack, and he didn't "snap out of it" until I yelled "NO!!!!!" When my dad reached over to pet him, he showed his teeth, started growling (my dad didn't see and I was trying to warn him to back away)he lept and bit my dad, then kept lunging and biting him! So it wasn't like just a defensive bite, but an attacking bite! Very troublesome.

Also, I was just reminded of how our little bundle of joy was like as a puppy. We had watched the puppy tests, and he wasn't the alpha dog, but they worded it "he THINKS he's the alpha dog." We should have taken than as a warning right there. We were just satisfied that he wasn't the alpha dog. Also, the day we picked him up at the breeders, we were one of the first new owners to arrive. All the puppies were in a caged in area. Ours was the only one to figure out there was a way out of the caged area (slipping between the cage and the wall, going under a chair) and he kept escaping! They nicknamed him the escape artist. There was another female puppy who seemed to try to bite him and make him stay but he would try again for the escape as soon as he was put back in the cage!! We have it all on videotape. You can hear us laughing nervously in the background, and we were both thinking "what the hell did we get ourselves into."

That is very cute behavior for a puppy, but not so cute when older! He is such an inteligent, fiercly driven dog that he'd be so good as a serious sport/ working dog (which is difficult because of his arthritic legs.)

One trainer I contacted seems to have experience with aggressive dogs, and her treatment for food aggression is using classical conditioning: while the dogs eatting you approach and throw *better* food at it, to associate a human approaching as a good thing. But after all I've read here, this doesn't seem like the best idea. It really makes sense to me to just leave him alone while eatting, and work with him for any other issues.

I agree w/your assessment of the trainers idea; I would just forget the food issue. Interestingly, the dog I was comparing him to (my "pick your battles" dog) is also a heck of an escape artist...garage door openers, doorknobs, you name it-he can escape it. I think often these are highly intelligent dogs and simply more demanding of a strong leader or they will very willingly assume the position, and the consequences are not always pretty. You've gotten good advice from people who have actually overcome this kind of thing.

One thing I would add would be to try to tire him mentally since he has physical problems. My problem child (who isn't really a problem at all anymore) gets 10x more relaxed after a hard mental workout than physical. I have yet to be able to tire him physically; I'd pass out first. BUT-working w/him on something challenging and mentally taxing goes a long way toward a calm, content dog who can chill out and lie down, and not go off looking for a fight.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

One thing I would add would be to try to tire him mentally since he has physical problems.

Great point Jenni! This dog needs an outlet to destress and make him easier to work with.

Stephanie, have you done any marker training with him? This would be a great outlet for you and him. He seems to have his basic obedience down but what he can be taught using this method is limitless.

I do not have a great deal of experience with aggression so would not suggest how to handle that except to agree with the advice of vet check and put his food in a crate in another room have him wait outside of that area (tether him if he doesn't have a solid stay) and then release him on your command after he has performed a small chore to deserve the food. Generally, my dog staying while I prepare his food is the obedience I require before he is released.

When you and your father were bit; what was the extent of the injuries? Did he break skin, leave bruises or draw blood? All bites and I include air snaps in this are a SERIOUS issue but I am curious if there is an acceleration of the power he is putting into the bite.

I digress, back to the marker training; it seems to me from the description of the attacks with the continued lunging he was trying to clear you from his space. Until you have things under better control I would call the dog to you for petting do not go to him (he seems to be space challenged ) I'd work with the marker training on a kicka** recall for handling. Petting by the way to be initiated only by you or your s.o. . Speaking of the s.o. the more the two of you disagree the more your dog is forced to take control. This is a tough situation.

Another task you can work on with the marker is directional work. Teaching him to move to where you want him to be; again this is another non confrontational way to regain your right to all space without actually challenging him by moving in on him. Just a couple of my thoughts as you continue to work with your boy. What is is his name?

 Quote: stephanie biros

The thing that has really concerned us about the most recent attacks (on me around his food bowl and around my dad) is that he didn't just bite as if to defend himself. He turned to me and bit my arm, then kept lunging, biting me all the way down my arm to my hand (he knocked me off balance and I fell backward.) It was so scary, because it became more like an attack, and he didn't "snap out of it" until I yelled "NO!!!!!" When my dad reached over to pet him, he showed his teeth, started growling (my dad didn't see and I was trying to warn him to back away)he lept and bit my dad, then kept lunging and biting him! So it wasn't like just a defensive bite, but an attacking bite! Very troublesome.

This is really not all that surprising to me> From what you have described, you were backing down and backing away from the dog. IT has already learned that nothing happens when it warning nips and bites (I say warning bite because you are not in the hospital getting plastic surgury right now. Still not good though!) It sounds to be like he is trying to dscipline you and drive you to where HE wants you to be. You keep backing away, he keeps driving. Its very simliar to what we are trying to get YOU to do to HIM actually. He just does it a little differently. Since Cesar Milan was mentioned already, and many are very familiar seeing this, remember how he is saying almost constantly that when he is touching the dog, he is using his fingers to bite? That is what your dog is doing to you. It is correcting and biting you to get a desired behavior/respect. At least that is really what it seems like.
Another thing. Until something HAPPENS or he gets what he wants, he will NOT snap out of it. Dogs that get to that point in their head need something to physically snap THEM out of it. THIS is why you need someone experienced with aggression. A well timed tap with a foot and correction with the lead work well to "snap" them out of this, but done wrong or poorly timed, YOU WILL GET BIT!
Good job with the assessment of the trainer. I would stay away from ANYONE who tries to tell you to use a halti or gentle leader, tries to tell you to use a purely positive method (reward the behavior we want, ignore what we don't - he'll stop biting when he find sout we have great treats! Don't laugh, I heard of a trainer that told one of my clients that!) I would also steer clear of ANYONE that tries to mess with the foo d in anyway. Good job (can't say it enough) at this point, you need a GOOD trainer. There really isn't a lot of room for error here - more can be done to make this worse (even though it seems it can't get worse believe me, it can) with a bad trainer.
If you have any questions about a trainer, interview them (before they meet your dog) then post here about what they said. You'll get all kinds of opinions

 Quote: Cameron Feathers

If you have any questions about a trainer, interview them (before they meet your dog) then post here about what they said. You'll get all kinds of opinions

Stephanie,

You mentioned Tufts I believe they have a behavioral department too and may be able to recommend someone qualified to deal with aggression in your area.

You have all given me so much to think about!! I went from feeling alone and frustrated and helpless, to feeling like I understand my dominant dog better and like I CAN DO this!!

To answer Sheila's question: initially the biting (usually around food) were just warning chomps, no breakage of skin. Lately, there is skin breakage (I do have a small scar on my upper arm) but I am fully aware he could do more damage if he wants to.

The way you have described the lunging makes perfect sense. It's like: you give an inch, they will take a mile. And by then they're "in the zone."

I wonder: has anyone had any experience with Tufts behavioral department? I'll tell you, it's always so amazing to me when I've brought up little behavioral issues in the past to several different vets, they seem not well educated about behavior and issues. Although, I guess in my medical training, human psychology wasn't over emphasized.

 Quote: stephanie biros

You have all given me so much to think about!! I went from feeling alone and frustrated and helpless, to feeling like I understand my dominant dog better and like I CAN DO this!!

I'll tell you, it's always so amazing to me when I've brought up little behavioral issues in the past to several different vets, they seem not well educated about behavior and issues. Although, I guess in my medical training, human psychology wasn't over emphasized.

I'm glad you are feeling better and more confident. THat is the key to dealing with this. I'm going to post a link to another thread where someone else is dealing witha similar issue. There is a link to a cesar milan episode where he is actually getting bit (they edit the part out where he shows the wound from the bite shown on this clip) this will give you a picture of what confident dominance looks like - especially when dealing with/being bitten
http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=197817&page=0#Post197817
My experience with vets has been the same as yours. I always tell my clients to talk to a vet when they have a medical emergency, talk to a nutritionist if they have a food allergy or issue, and talk to a trainer or behaviorist when they have a behavioral problem. Don't ask all three questions of one person (no matter the degree)unless they ALSO have a degree as a nutrionalist (or experience as a nutritionalist) same goes for trainers.
Most vets I wouldn't even let touch my dogs, let alone tell me how to train them.
I think you are well on your way to being able to tell what a good trainer will do verses a bad one. Keep up the hard work!

One thing I wanted to add, I would not be petting this dog. Not you, not your s.o., not your dad - NO one. He needs a calm, dominant leader, and gushing over him or giving him love in the typical human way is easily seen as weakness. I would be completely aloof with him, and use a calm quiet "yes" or "good" as a marker for doing something right - and leave it at that. The key to dealing with and overcoming aggression is that YOU are CALM. If the dog is snarling and lunging or growling, he is NOT calm. The fact that you are sets you ahead immediately as being dominant. even while correcting (especially!) the one doing the correction must be completely CALM. (look, I can stop you, control you and make you listen and I STILL am not worked up!) If you start to work with a trainer and they are escalating their voice and yelling, stop the session, thank them, and dismiss them. And really work on being aloof and like you couldn't care less right now (this includes if he is hurt). Don't gush over him or pay more attention simply because he is acting that way. If you think he may actually be hurt, then make arrangements to have him looked at and put him away in his kennel or room so he cannot hurt it further. You looking at it will really not help fix it anyway (if it is that bad that it needs to go to the vet), so don't give in to that trap for attention. If it's not bad enough to go to the vet, then it doesn't need your immediate attention anyway, so keep on being aloof and either give the dog a break (kennel or room) or keep on walking.

Cameron, I remember that episode! I teared up watching it. THAT is MY dog!! But smaller, obviously. The look on it's face, the turning of the head with the ears flattening. WOW! Cesar is so calm it's amazing. I have been talking about this to my s.o. and he made a good point that because Cerbie is our dog, we have all these emotions tied to his behavior. If he acts aggressively towards one of us, we're angry and hurt. If towards a family member or someone else, we angry and upset, and it shows! We really have to change our mindset. He is our animal. He's not our child, he's not a little human.

I must say, also, Leerburg's video about puppy raising was great. I still use tools from it. Such as when grooming or clipping his toe nails, if he starts to get that look in his eye like he's unhappy, (I usually have him laying on his side anyway) I'll say "No" and continue confidentally what I'm doing. He's never given me a problem grooming or nails, and we've been doing that since he was a puppy. I can see if we hadn't been so strong about that, that would also be an issue. So I need to focus on the positive outcomes we've had so far.

And I'm unfamiliar with marker training, and what exactly that means. So more research for me!!

Marker training:

http://www.leerburg.com/markers.htm

Got any good small treats? You can read that and actually start today.