Yeah, the Cascade says it has 8 different live cultures. They didn't have Nancy's at the Whole Foods I went to. I have 2 last questions:

1. They only had whole milk yogurt today - it looks like they carry no-fat, but they were out. So I did go ahead and get the whole milk kind, but is no fat better, or does it matter?

2. And related to that, Since he has been on raw, he has gained a few pounds (in 2 months) - I can tell by looking at his waist from above. He is still in the perfectly fine range - 77lbs (male golden), but I don't him to keep gaining, so I think I may need to cut back what I feed him just a little. Now that I'm adding yogurt, I'm wondering if I should cut back on the amount of meat or meat/bone combined.

I give him about 1 1/2 lbs a day (i.e. a chicken back and around 4 oz of ground meat in the am/ and then a chicken leg quarter in the pm.) The only veggie he gets is pumpkin - I tried the pulverized slop that Kymythy Schultze recommends, but even a small amount gives him gas and he doesn't really eat it too well. He gets the organ meat a couple times a week. He eat turkey, chicken and beef for meat.

Whole vs. non-fat is strictly weight-dictated.

I consider yogurt to be "instead of" just as I consider canned mackerel to be "instead of" part of the usual meat/RMBs.

Yogurt is protein and calcium.

For produce, I love to use mini zucchini (or any summer squash) because it's incredibly cheap and it's not stiff-celled like, say, raw broccoli stems.

I also give leftover steamed dinner vegetables (unsalted and unsauced). And I have used canned no-sodium-added green beans to fill up the bowl better for a piglet dog who needed to cut back but was very disappointed when she saw the reduced rations in her dish.

I would like to put a word in for kefir. We are recent "kefir groupies" after reading about it on this site in a different thread. We had always used yogurt. The benefits of kefir in my opinion are superior to yogurt. One site describes it as follows: "Analogous to grapes and wine, yogurt is wine and kefir is champagne." The yeast factor was the selling point for me. Kefir contains beneficial yeasts that control and eliminate pathogenic yeasts. Here are a couple website that compare the yogurt and kefir(google will give you many more).
http://www.analagoatcompany.com/Earth%20Mother/yogurvskefir.htm
http://www.kefir.net/kefiryogurt.htm

I am making my own and it is very easy and cheap. I bought kefir grains off ebay and every 2 days I have a fresh batch. I use whole milk as weight is not an issue for mine. Here is one site explaining how to make it.
http://www.seedsofhealth.co.uk/fermenting/kefir_howto.shtml

Shannon

 Quote: shannon reed

I would like to put a word in for kefir. We are recent "kefir groupies" after reading about it on this site in a different thread. We had always used yogurt. The benefits of kefir in my opinion are superior to yogurt. One site describes it as follows: "Analogous to grapes and wine, yogurt is wine and kefir is champagne." The yeast factor was the selling point for me. Kefir contains beneficial yeasts that control and eliminate pathogenic yeasts. Here are a couple website that compare the yogurt and kefir(google will give you many more).
http://www.analagoatcompany.com/Earth%20Mother/yogurvskefir.htm
http://www.kefir.net/kefiryogurt.htm

I am making my own and it is very easy and cheap. I bought kefir grains off ebay and every 2 days I have a fresh batch. I use whole milk as weight is not an issue for mine. Here is one site explaining how to make it.
http://www.seedsofhealth.co.uk/fermenting/kefir_howto.shtml

Shannon

THANKS! Good catch.

I keep forgetting kefir because the store where I shop isn't reliable about having plain kefir in stock. Plenty with flavorings and sweeteners, but the plain is often sold out.

I also make my own kefir, it is very potent stuff.
I have read that the made at home variety has many more probiotics (about 80) in it that the store bought kind.

Thank you for the info on Kefir - I never knew what is was! If the yogurt agrees with him this week, then I guess I should starting making Kefir - it would be cheaper and better than buying yogurt all the time!

Would you feed him the same amount of Kefir - a cup a day? I'm also trying to figure out how to substitute yogurt/kefir for part of his daily RMBs - how much RMB should I take away as an 'instead of' for the yogurt/kefir? If he's eating 1 chicken back w/ approx 4 oz ground meat, and a chicken leg quarter a day (1 1/2 lbs total).

Edited by Lori Hall (06/09/2008 10:27 AM)
Edit reason: left out a word

 Quote: Lori Hall

I'm also trying to figure out how to substitute yogurt/kefir for part of his daily RMBs - how much RMB should I take away as an 'instead of' for the yogurt/kefir?

I don't substitute by ounces or anything. They don't have similar caloric value.

The thing is that I really go by the look of the dogs. You'll know very soon whether the waistline is moving outwards or inwards, and if he's fluffy then you can go by weight (or how he looks wet).

But say you want to be careful at first and not give extra to a dog with gaining tendencies.

Compare yogurt to ground poultry or other meat (skinless RMBs would have lower calories than ground meat).

The meat would probably range from 55 to 80 calories an ounce.

Non-fat plain unsweetened yogurt is more like 15 calories an ounce.

So if I wanted to add 1/3 cup or so of nonfat yogurt, I'd probably leave out almost an ounce of the meat I give (which is in the 55 calorie range).

This sounds all very familiar.

Mine had the acutely irritated thighs, lower abdomen, and tops of the elbows...in addition to general scratching overall. For a while there, bad just became normal. Ever since a rabies vaccine, he's never totally left those areas alone. Never did he have thick luxurious fur in the aforementioned regions.

Yogurt helped...a little...I think.

Salmon oil seemed to make a pretty big difference in the winter when symptoms were minimal.

This year, I succumbed to at least trying medications...with no help from the vet. He suggested a making a log of daily pollen counts yadda yadda. For god's sake, let's just try a benign med and see if it works! Chlopheniramine did the trick for me. For pet meds, only 4 mg pills were non-Rx, and really didn't make a stark difference.

However, for humans, ChlorTrimeton, 12mg time release, 2x per day for the first few days, and then only as needed, seemed to do the trick. In fact, I even skip some days and entirely.

Having a normal dog is so beautiful.

I thank Connie Sutherland, mainly.

Before, notice the thigh with the lighter undercoat/skin showing. This was at it's worst (following rabies), but remained less than 100% for the next 12 months while I screwed with holistic remedies:
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After, notice where the lower abdomen stretches out before the thigh...it used to be almost bare, and the thighs and elbows are free and clear:



It was the stark, definitive improvement I was looking for. Not the maybes, almosts, and so-sos.

Worth a shot if this looks familiar, I guess.

Fish oil, raw diet, trials of Hydroxyzine and Chlorpheniramine (RX), plain yogurt ... yes, these are the first tools I haul out before more serious stuff.

I have one whose allergies are not terrible (bad enough), and this plus keeping his paws washed off after he's on grass manages his symptoms. I can skip the med now too, in the not-pollen season.

He has Hydroxyzine pamoate (cheaper than HCI; I don't know what the difference is, but I do know that some dogs do better on HCI) twice a day, and after he got over the hump of the pretty continuous scratching cycle, I was able to switch to just the morning dose.

Now I rarely give the evening dose, even in allergy season.

As Messonnier says, throwing everything that's safe at the allergy in trial mode is a pretty good idea because they are so extremely individual in response. (OK, those are not his exact words.)

I use Hydroxyzine pamoate - the vet says 1 1/2 50mg capsules 2 x a day, is the usual dosage for his size (it's a pain opening those capsules and emptying 1/2 of the powder out!). Do you guys give a higher dose than that for 75lbs?

I also have the generic Chlorpheniramine 5mg tabs - but I didn't know I could do the human 12mg 12 hour time released ones - maybe I should try that too. The vet said I could give him 3 5mg Chlorpheniramine 2 or 3 times a day.