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But to state that a Belgian Malinois you can live with is a KNPV reject does a disservice to KNPV breeders as well as the dogs themselves.

Oh believe me, there's enough Malinois breeders out there that I wouldn't mind doing a disservice to, KNPV or otherwise.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

Oh believe me, there's enough Malinois breeders out there that I wouldn't mind doing a disservice to, KNPV or otherwise.

LOL, of course! But that isn't the point. I just think that your statement that any liveable KNPV dog is a reject isn't accurate. I just said that there are plenty of breeders who look beyond JUST a dog's ability to bite. Such a dog may not be your ideal dog. It really does come down to what you want the dog for.

I'll freely admit that while I appreciate great field dogs that are otherwise nuts, I'd gladly sacrifice a little "intensity" for a little more balance. No doubt my posted opinions on this forum reflect that, and therefore would probably be most relevant to someone who wants a pet dog they can work successfully.

I do believe that in many respects the temperament of certain lines of working dogs has become as dysfunctionally exaggerated as sloped backs in showline GSD's.

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I just said that there are plenty of breeders who look beyond JUST a dog's ability to bite. Such a dog may not be your ideal dog. It really does come down to what you want the dog for.

And this is where our views differ. If you want a working pet, or an easier to handle dog, there are other breeds out there (GSD's for example settle in a house much easier), and there are less difficult dogs in some great litters. Instead of breeding down so everyone can handle a dog, it would be nice if people just stuck with a breed more appropriate for them.

As for "what you want the dog for," thats entirely inaccurate. The only difference is the owner and what they expect from a dog,

What I find most amusing is that these views only ever come into play in this context. Nobody ever says "Hey I want a 140lb brindle GSD that is really friendly and has a deep bark." No, they just go get a Great Dane. They go with the breed that is appropriate for them. Mal's are a certain way, yet people still want to make them different instead of going with a breed that is already that way, like the GSD.

It's like I said earlier: Get the best of the breed you can handle, not the low end of a breed you can't.

It's already hard enough to find a great Mal. Everybody wants Rin Tin Tin. But hey, people will do what they want and breed what they want, so it really doesn't matter.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

Instead of breeding down so everyone can handle a dog, it would be nice if people just stuck with a breed more appropriate for them.

As for "what you want the dog for," thats entirely inaccurate. The only difference is the owner and what they expect from a dog,


It's like I said earlier: Get the best of the breed you can handle, not the low end of a breed you can't.

AMEN!!

Until I started breeding Mals I had no idea how many people really don't have realistic expectations of these wonderful WORKING dogs.

Do my dogs live in the house? Yes! Are they more challenging to raise than a GSD or a Welsh Corgi? Absolutely.

Is it worth it? Of course!

I am repeatedly amazed at how many people who have no problem raising other working breeds struggle with a Malinois puppy.

I sound like a broken record, but I try to talk people out of this breed on a daily basis. Like Mike, I fear the watering down of the Malinois so that mediocre dog trainers can handle them. I don't want to see the Malinois go the way of so many other working breeds.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

Belgian lines are the calmest of them all????

What world do you people live in?

I live in Malinoisville btw! Belgian lines are calmer in their work from what I see. That being said I didn't say they were Golden Retrievers Mike! The French lines are the most intense and OCD in their work and the Dutch lines are not far behind. A crap breeding is a crap breeding no matter what though.

 Quote: Cindy Easton Rhodes

I sound like a broken record, but I try to talk people out of this breed on a daily basis. Like Mike, I fear the watering down of the Malinois so that mediocre dog trainers can handle them. I don't want to see the Malinois go the way of so many other working breeds.

To me the only way to do that is to wrestle the rights of breed registration from clubs based around the Conformation crowd like the AKC and CKC. As those bodies did not do the GSD and other working breeds any favours the past 60 years in North America.

The Working Sporting Malinois needs an organization like the http://www.americanbordercollie.org/ to protect the Working Malinois from the conformation disease that runs amok on this continent ..

Just say 'NO' to Barbie and Ken Malinois!!

I especially like this part from the ABC site,

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Dogs ineligible for ABCA registration:
The ABCA is a working stockdog registry and believes that breeding for conformation standards rather than working ability is detrimental to the health and working ability of the Border Collie. Consequently dogs or bitches which have been named a "Conformation Champion" by a conformation registry are not eligible for ABCA registration, even if they otherwise meet the requirements for registration. The ABCA will de-register any ABCA registered dog or bitch should it be named a "Conformation Champion" after January 1, 2004, and will not register the offspring of any dog or bitch named a "Conformation Champion" after that date.

 Quote: Geoff Empey

To me the only way to do that is to wrestle the rights of breed registration from clubs based around the Conformation crowd like the AKC and CKC. As those bodies did not do the GSD and other working breeds any favours the past 60 years in North America.

The Working Sporting Malinois needs an organization like the http://www.americanbordercollie.org/ to protect the Working Malinois from the conformation disease that runs amok on this continent ..

Just say 'NO' to Barbie and Ken Malinois!!

As someone who personally feel that breeders, and not the AKC, is accountable for poor breeding choices, I will leave the AKC comments alone ;-) However, I just wanted to point out that the Malinois has the American Working Malinois Association: http://www.workingmalinois.com - I encourage people who are interested in the working malinois to join the organization and help to work towards keeping working in the breed.

Thanks Ingrid for the link!! Yes you are right about the breeders ... but then again it is the AKC et al that push the demand for Barbie Dogs .. We can't just blame the unscrupulous breeders for all that woe supposed working breeds. They are just filling a market created by a forum (conformation).

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I live in Malinoisville btw!

Oh. Good point. They don't have Mal's here