I sometimes wonder what I might have picked up, worm-wise, in Iraq.


I confess to petting a jackal once, too.


Maybe I could eat DE?

Thanks for digging that up, Yuko. This is indeed interesting stuff. I do have online access to my university library and I'm downloading the entire articles. My mother has MS so I have a long standing personal interest in autoimmune diseases. Yes, the causes are complex and incompletely understood, so I remain skeptical of broad claims such as *all* immune disorders are due to modern humans missing parasites with which they originally co-evolved (as referenced in an earlier post).

Returning to the original issue, though - I hope that nobody reading this thread now or in the future gets the idea that because parasitic worms can reduce symptoms in humans with specific intestinal autoimmune disorders, therefore worms can be safely ignored (or are beneficial) in dogs. Or in people who don't suffer from intestinal autoimmune disease, for that matter.

Someone was apparently sufficiently unhappy with my saying that puppies with worms should be dewormed that they removed one of my stars. Good grief.

 Quote: Sarah Ward

Returning to the original issue, though - I hope that nobody reading this thread now or in the future gets the idea that because parasitic worms can reduce symptoms in humans with specific intestinal autoimmune disorders, therefore worms can be safely ignored (or are beneficial) in dogs. Or in people who don't suffer from intestinal autoimmune disease, for that matter.

Someone was apparently sufficiently unhappy with my saying that puppies with worms should be dewormed that they removed one of my stars. Good grief.

Oh yeah? Well, I just starred you back up.

Lol, I don't think anyone here disagreed with that statement Sarah (that pups with worms should be dewormed)

The therapeutic use of worms in humans came up, so I addressed that (providing studies instead of just the anecdotal evidence mentioned in the links). I clearly labeled that part of my post as "off topic", just so it wouldn't get confused with the original topic.

The discussion revolved more around the urgency of the situation. If a dog has such a minimal worm load that it doesn't even show up on a fecal test, then I don't see anything wrong with using a slower gentler deworming approach.

If the DE treatment takes a few days or weeks to complete the deworming, are the very few, tiny, barely detectable tapeworms in that pup really going to hurt him in the meantime? Is it unreasonable to weigh the potential harm of the temporary worm presence vs. that of the chemical wormer and decide that, in this case, the worms are the lesser threat?
I don't think so. We may not all agree on the best course, but I think it's worth taking into consideration at least :-)

I know plenty of breeders who have no trouble keeping their pups and adults free of worms without ever using chemical wormers.

Now if you're talking about a sick dog with a heavy parasitic load whose immune system is obviously taxed to the limit, then sure, you could make the argument that the potential harm inflicted by the parasites would outweigh the potential harm done by the toxicity of the wormer. In that situation, "the faster the better" approach might be best.

Anyway, good luck with your pup Emily!
Considering how much thought and research you've put into this, I'm sure you'll find the right solution for him.

(PS for Sarah: The authors do mention studies done on an animal form of MS in the conclusion of that article. I didn't look into it, but I hope you find something of use - good luck with your research.)

Great post Yuko. That is exactly my point. There isn't always a need to go right to harsh chemicals. And using DE doesn't mean you're "not worming" your puppy. It IS worming a puppy. Just slower and gentler.

And I think there are issues being caused by the over sterilization of our living environments.

 Quote:

so I remain skeptical of broad claims such as *all* immune disorders are due to modern humans missing parasites with which they originally co-evolved (as referenced in an earlier post).

I didn't see this statement made. I only understood that they are studying the possibility that parasites, or the lack there of, may be one of the reasons. I find it fascinating. I hope there is good information in the studies Sarah is downloading. Lucky to have full access.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

I sometimes wonder what I might have picked up, worm-wise, in Iraq.


I confess to petting a jackal once, too.


Maybe I could eat DE?

Apparently you can (OK this is of topic, but...)
I too have wondered; I lived in Egypt for a few months, and then Honduras for 2 years, and I've also been multiple times to Mexico. (and had stomach issues in all 3 locations...)

I googled d.e. for human consumption, and apparently there are people who do eat it, and claim that they are healthier for it.

I'm not quite there yet, though...
(I can't lay claim to ever having petted a jackal, but I did do a very uncomfortable camel safari/dive trip once... )

Thanks Shody.

(Off topic again, sorry )
If we go back to the human autoimmune cases: if you read the whole article + related ones (not just the abstracts), you'll see that the researchers actually believe that there could be an inherent flaw in those patients' immune systems (insufficient regulation of the T helper cell activity).
The worms act on several immune regulatory pathways and seem to compensate for the patient's inability to keep their own immune systems under check.

It's just a hypothesis (there are many more), but I think it's pretty cool...

Shody, if you're really interested in seeing the whole article (or any other article you come across), PM me and I'll e-mail them to you. Obviously I would get into trouble if I posted them on a public forum, but I don't think it'd be a big deal if I just e-mailed them to one person

Let me know.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

Maybe I could eat DE?

It would help if you did pick things up and it won't hurt.

I've spent a lot of time on the Wolf Creek site reading about DE (and other things). Since I'm new to DE, it's still registering on the amazing side to me.

In addition to killing worms and parasites, it detoxes some heavy metals, some bad bacteria and viruses. What's not to like?<g> Works for humans as well as animals.

I've got my dog and both cats on it now, 365.

leih

What a great thread! Thank you to everyone who has given their input on this subject. I've learned quite a bit.

I don't worm my dogs preventatively, only when I see signs and get a fecal done. I figure that at any given time, my dogs must have some kind of worm-load in their gut, especially given what they find to eat sometimes!! We do worm for heartworm regularly, but like the parvo and the lepto, heartworm is prevalent here, too. (Living in Paradise doesn have it's drawbacks, I guess.)

I'm going to check out more info on DE!

Thank you all~~
Luana