That makes sense. I just noticed she broke heels or sits easier, or was slower to do so, when we switched collars.

I worked with her heeling doing the 'turn and change direction' method. So I was surprised to see the change, I guess, but it made me wonder if inadvertantly I or she had been correcting her and it changed her compliance based on collar.

ETA: mind you, while it took her some time to decide I could tell her what to do, I didn't really have to train her for most basic obedience. Once we reached that watershed moment where she decided to sit for me, that was it. I've no idea what training method was used to initially train her.

I'm sure you know, I'm certainly not anti-prong.

What do you think about instead of using the same obedience commands when another dog is nearby, teaching her a 'calm'-type command? I don't even know how I'd do that though. But that might help to isolate the behaviour better.... ????

You might want to go to this link http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html for some scientific data on different collars. There is no one way or method to train a dog i.e., all compulsion or all motivation, because different dogs require different methods. I have been training dogs for over 30 years and I have learned the following, that having a dog love you and having a dog respect you are be very different. In order for a dog to do something you want it to do while it is in active drive requires respect and through respect comes love and this is much the same in all relationships human or canine. Regards Norman

I have, up until recently, always used the prong with Teagan.

I do try to use positive methods with her, but I will also correct her when I deem it necessary.

For the most part, she obeys me regardless of what collar she is in. When we first switched to the martingale only, we regressed a bit, but she is doing well again after a fairly short time.

It really is that I want her to respect me, not the collar.

I am, for the most part, pleased with her and her willingness to do what I want, especially when it is diametrically opposed to what she wants. That's certainly something that developed over time as we worked together, and to me, it is a sign that she does respect me and sees us as a team. That said, we're not perfect, and she has her moments - so her respect may not be absolute, but she is a dog that likes to test boundaries.

She does get treated very differently than Luc or Neb. Luc is very soft, and not the most confident - he gets his confidence from knowing that I will take care of him in all situations - they are totally different dogs and what works with Luc would see Teagan running amok.

So you've proved to yourself that she respects you and not the collar?
Hmmm, so it seems now she respects your physical poweress rather than the collar.

No no Jenn, it's not a knock on what you're trying to do. Uh, look at it this way, how do you know it's not you she's respecting but rather it's the leash. I'll bet she's a whole lot less reliable off lead. Is it time to drop the leash?

I vote carry on with the pinch collar.
Randy

Maybe, that's a good point. I've only had to physically control her twice since moving from the prong, so I don't feel like it's a huge part of what we're doing.

She'll never be off-leash. But would I theoretically trust her? No.

How do I get her to respect me more than she currently does? Are you saying if she respects me enough, she'll cease to be aggressive/reactive, and she'll always do exactly what I want? She already tempers her aggression, and looks to me when she does. I do NILIF with her, obedience regularly, exercise her - what else am I supposed to do? Her behaviour is way better than it was, and she listens to me, but I'll never consider her trustworthy. She's always been headstrong. If she respects me more, she won't be headstrong anymore? I think I could correct the hell out of her and she'd be a lot more subdued, but I don't want to do that.

I never said correct the hell out of her Jenn. When have I ever?

Nor have I tried to dissuade you from where you're trying to go now.

It's only my opinion. I wouldn't give up the control the pinch provides when, or if, control is what's needed.

Randy

I wasn't trying to say that you were saying to correct the hell out of her, sorry!

But what am I supposed to do to make her respect me (I'm not considering heavy correction as an option in the respect column) if she doesn't respect me now? What else am I supposed to do? She listens to me, I don't let her push me around, she has clear set out rules that she understands. I honestly have no idea what else I'm supposed to be doing. Just accept she doesn't, and never will, respect me?

I think the respect comes over time from being consistant,fair, and providing the structure and routine she needs. I think you have before you realise it if that makes sence. I'm not sure if this is relevant or not here Jennifer, but to get my dog ready to trial without a prong I keep the prong collar with me just like treats and I pull it out for corrections and then put it away again.

i have been working the same way with her for months - probably over half a year - in terms of trying to give her tools/something positive to do instead of aggression. i've been doing NILIF and other regular obedience and exercise with her since i got her. i can only keep on doing it.

i don't have anything else.

i just spent my time crying in the bathroom stall to realize - some people have it, and some people don't. i love her, and i love working with her, and i will keep doing so, and i will be consistent, but there's no point in my expecting anything more.