Very true.
The fact is, I would change the marker completely, and start over at step one with loading it.

Even just a different sounding clicker, if need be.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: angela burrell

Jennifer, yes! that is one thing I am actually good at. This is what I use "yes" for and it means I am happy with the dog's current behaviour, but does not mean "end of behaviour here is your reward". It means to keep doing what they are doing such as laying calmly chewing their bone. That is a great suggestion and I think that too many people do not reward their dogs when they are performing a desired behaviour on their own.

Wait a second, though.

You mark for unasked-for but good stuff? I do say "good boys!" and pat or even treat when they are doing what I want them to be doing (no training going on). Much different (to me) from marking/rewarding a command.

Okay this conversation happened like 2 pages ago, but to clarify: the word "yes" IS NOT my marker. As in, it's not loaded and they don't expect a treat when I say it. It just means to them that I'm happy with what they are doing and to continue doing it. It does not have to follow a command (though I do use it during for example, "stay" - to mean they are doing it right and the exercise is not over yet). Sorry... should have clarified that, I know most people here use "yes" as a marker, but I don't. I use a clicker or a different word ("X") for a marker, and that is used when training.

I agree 1000% about keeping a marker pure and always giving a treat when I mark, even if I've marked the wrong thing.

OK Im going to read the rest of the posts now.

 Quote: jennifer lee

Yes it does.
But "That being said" (LOL)
Angela's dog has only learned one behavior with the clicker and seems to equate the clicker only with backing up. So going back and redoing the loading and beginning steps of marker training might make it clear to him that the click means something other than just back up.

I think this is what you guys have been trying to tell me all along haha. Now. I did notice that using a word ("X" - okay it's a letter) instead of the click does help. He doesn't try to back up until a few repetitions of whatever we are learning. It is his "default" behaviour like Luc, Leo and Danke's downs. However, I really like using a clicker and would like to continue it.

However, I guess my problem is when my dog backs up and he's "wrong" - he tries harder by going faster. What should I do if I am trying to train a behaviour and he offers his backup (pun intended hee hee)? I ignore it or give a negative marker (nope, try again) and he gets confused and frustrated, thinking the rules have changed on him. I don't want him to think the training game isn't fun. I like Pat's corner idea. maybe it will make him think about trying something else.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

What is the best way to work around over-anticipation around certain commands (when Luc is excited he starts downing b/c he starts to guess, like Leo and Danke).

I usually walk away and re-start in another location to try to 'clear' everything. I also try to make sure that I'm not being too predictable in our training sessions.

Anything else? Teagan and Neb don't do this, but Luc does.

Hey Jen,

so if im reading your post...you are letting luc know that training is coming...and he downs in anticipation that you're going to ask him to do that in order to get a treat quickly?

Tucker does the same thing. But if he downs automatically without me asking I make him do something else that i've taught with marker training (like the touch or sit etc). Since i haven't given a command yet (I've just said "are you ready" so he know's fun-time is coming)and he downs right away i don't think it would be fair for me to say "no" to him, because technically he isn't doing a command wrong (I haven't given one yet) he's just excited and is trying to get a treat quickly!!!
So I will give a command he knows (touch) and just ignore the fact that he's in the down)
I wouldn't use a negavite marker for it though. like i said, he hasn't disobeyed (imo)he's just thinking ahead.


Tucker's quirks are that he always talks back after I give a command during marker training. If I say down..he' does it but mumbles all the way down. Same with sit or touch..he has to be vocal about it. But it doesn't bother me...i think he's just proud of himself because he know's that command!!
His husky definately comes out, because it's more of a yodel than a bark.



Edited by Wendy Lefebvre (03/26/2009 11:47 AM)
Edit reason: added quirk

That, or sometimes if we're working on a long sit and he's excited he'll break it and start downing. He can focus and does long sits well - this actually only ever happens when I have a bunch of treats. If I use praise only he stays calm and focused throughout the training session.

Yote will do almost the same thing except he starts waving his paw in the air and squealing. Its like he just can't stand it anymore.

My husky mix does this too. Paws me excitedly and talks. As if to say, "mom, look! see me? see me mom? Im doing it!"

When Yote gets frustrated he tends to squeal and scream and sounds like he is dieing.

If he happens to be on a leash while he get frustrate he has been known to flop around like a fish out of water while shrieking.

I just stand there and totally ignore him.
I look at it like a two year old having a temper tantrumm you can't give in and any attention you give it makes it worse.

I have gotten some really dirty looks from people as they turn around to see who is hurting their dog.

Due to handler error one of my dogs jumps straight up in the air on her hind legs when I give her the "stand" command from a sitting or down position. I keep thinking she is gonna drop the jump but she hasn't. Any suggestions sure would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Debbie

Your best bet is probably to change the command and start all over.