Vince,

I can be accused of a lot of things, but not being new. It is just such an event to get a new pup since we only get one every 5-10 years. Our dogs tend to live to 13-15 years, and more than 2 is too much for the house.

We have been waiting on this pup for almost a year to find the right breeding from working stock. The last litter didn't have enough females to go around. This litter was of 12, 6/6. So we go to New York 6 Sep to pick her up. This is also a new breed so I am looking forward to trying something new.

Vince,

I took no offence to your postings, in fact I love a good discussion, dog training seems to bring out the best opinions when they are a little heated it seems. I actually don't have my dog yet it will be here October sometime. I spent the last 6 months finding the right breeder and looking for the most perfect temperment dogs I could for Schutzund in my area. I feel that doign my homework now is goign to save me a lot of frustration and time later on.... so to get to the point if I need to be told " how it really is" please feel free to do so, I will never take offence or be mad. This is why I'm on this board, to learn all I can by whatever means.

xxoo
Lonny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Richard. I was trying to answer 3 members posts at the same time. That was not directed to you. My fault.

Same here, Vince. I enjoy your posts very much, and haven't been offended yet.
And I'm waiting for a breed new to me as well, and like Richard, getting a new pup is a big event. My lab just died at age 15, and the one before that made it to aged 10. I know its always tempting to think of your last dog as the "best one," but this one was. He forced me to learn to use his outstanding prey and food drives during training, and I learned a lot, just in order to keep up with him. As a working retriever, acquired from a serious breeder, he was all I could ask for.
But for the last year or so, as he was declining, I've been considering what to do next. I started to hear about American Bulldogs, and through that connection started to learn about Schutzhund. I have an AB on order (the breeder lost the litter with my pup, and I'm waiting for the next breeding to take place), and I'm busy making plans and trying to educate myself about what is realistic for me and for the dog.
First order of business was to find the right breeder and then get a pup with the right pedigree. Next is to listen to you folks and soak up as much as I can, while watching and learning as much as possible from some local trainers. Thanks to you all!

John

Sorry to hear about your Lab John, that is always hard...looks like we are doing the same thing... waiting, it's killing me! Lucky I get to practice my handling and helper skills with my friend's dogs, he has a decent workign GSD that I have been training with for the last year or so, it has helped my try all the things I learn from the video's and from the training director at my buddies "school" without screwing up my own dog. hahahah I think the great folks here are very helpful and I sure do apperciate all the good advise "and the bad too"!

Johne you have a very nice way with words. If I can ever be any help let me know. I can't recommend Ed's tapes highly enough. I have over 20 of them and have watched some of them so often that they wore out. Ed if your listening. Vote yes for DVD! Send me an email with any private questions or my favorite video recommendations.

Vince,

One other thing to think about is that a lot of clubs are not set up with an good training director and helper(s). That is sometimes part of the reason people will float from club to club. I agree, it is also because people will not listen and look for the club that will agree with them 100%. Handlers also do have to look at what they bring to the table and what their dog is capable of. And possibly, what they will be looking for in their next dog. But, there are also clubs that do not want to focus on the newcomers at all as well.

I was lucky in that when I got back into the sport a few years ago, I was able to hook up with a few working dog people in my club and was able to train and learn. And I am very lucky to be in a club (and near other clubs) that will with all levels of handlers and dogs. But, they will also let you now what the dog is capable of as well. My male is not a top SCH dog that will go to the Nationals, but his scores are good (sg to V in tracking and protection, G due to me and him in OB and going for sg)for his SCH1 and 2. We are going for his SCH3. Based on what you have said before, I probably would not have made it in your club :-). But, I have learned a ton from my dog , what I needed to look for in a dog ( also from Ed... and watching/learning from other members and clubs) my handling and I have a new dog that can go way above the levels that I am at now.

smithie86

Valid points. I was just making a point. You made another good one.

I read the entire thread of statements here. I personally use food reward and ball reward until a puppy is 8 months old. I associate the sound with the behaviour and by mere repetition, it becomes something the dog knows very well. A 8 months I start acting a correction phaase, and I move along until 12 to 20 months. This is what I did with my 11 year old dog. What I'm not clear on is why do some people here feel that a Schutzhund dog needs to be kennel dog and not a pet? Personally, I want a personal protection dog that will protect me in a real situation and if I'm more closely bonded to my animal, he's simply not a tool for training, the odds are in my favor. In other words, I think bite training and Schutzhund and personal protection training are inter-related activities, and a Schutzhund trained dog can be trained to be a personal protection dog. However an estate dog, is different from a Personal protection dog, and is likewise different from a junkyard dog, that are antisocial dogs. Thus, we're really taking about different types of dogs and I think an antisocial, junkyard type dog is a throw-away type of dog that you wouldn't want in the house, because he's simply too aggressive and uncontrollable otherwise. However, a Schutzhund dog or a personal protection dog is at the extreme opposite end, as in indeed a dog to have in the house, and all the talk of a ScH dog not being a pet too?

Alex,
Many trainers do believe a Sch dog should be kenneled, not b/c the dog is not safe, but to keep the dog, frankly, a little bored. If the dog has free access to toys and/or other dogs to play with, he is sort of *independently wealthy* and has less incentive to work. Also, training time w/the handler should be the greatest excitement in the dog's life.
I was much more skeptical of the Austerity Program until I saw it happen up close and personal. An 8 mo old Mink G-daught. who had minimal ball drive until she lost her play buddy and turned into a ball nut.
Personally, I really want my dogs to live in the house w/me, so they are crated separately, my working pup isn't allowed to play w/another dog unless I'm there to supervise. It may not be the best way to bring up his drive (which is pretty strong anyway), but it's what works for me.