Uh uh,
No way am I giving them up now, I just found them!

I've already tried pulling a rabbit out of my hat.
I'm not taking the chance on losing the keys to the wayback again. I'll keep'em thank you.

Don't worry, I'll duhcidedly do-right!

 Quote: randy allen

Uh uh,
No way am I giving them up now, I just found them!

I've already tried pulling a rabbit out of my hat.
I'm not taking the chance on losing the keys to the wayback again. I'll keep'em thank you.

Don't worry, I'll duhcidedly do-right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YunO4Wc8E28

I didn't read the whole article but I read the beginning and the end. I loved the suggestion the author had to lay down on the ground with your dog and act submissive like a papa wolf. *roll eyes*

judging by the majority of emails from pet dog owners I get everyday, emergency room business would go way up if people took his advice. Laying down on the ground and acting submissive with a dog who doesn't respect you as a leader is an invitation for that dog to assert him or herself and the results will likely include aggression, especially when you try to get back up. Absolutely stupid advice!

There are some people who write articles just to stir the pot, I look at this one as an example of that.

BTW, I love Sherman and Mr. Peabody!

 Quote: Cindy Easton Rhodes

There are some people who write articles just to stir the pot, I look at this one as an example of that.

Yeah, it's hard to believe that someone could write that stuff and keep a straight face...
What I especially liked were the followup comments by LCK's fan club. 'we enjoy our time by not struggling for pack leader status'
That's because your dog has already assumed that position!

I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest with this thread. I've been reading some of LCK's articles and they didn't ring true, but I couldn't put my finger on why. I was looking for insight from this group and got it in spades!

Lynne, it's interesting you mention LCK's "fan club" because I wonder if we're a fan club too (of course we are!). I think in this case, while LCK is basing his opinions on Dr. Mech's science; I think he's taking it beyond what Dr. Mech has stated (or at least really observed).

I appreciate this group a great deal. I have a lot to learn and you guys aren't afraid to turn on the firehose.

Here's his website, in case you'd like to know more:
http://www.leecharleskelley.com/home/aboutleecharleskelley.html

He has a pretty nice website; he offers a free phone consultaion if anyone's interested...

It seems like such an incomplete equation (taking out all the wolf comparisons and just focusing on dogs here)
Play with your dog and he will magically obey you...

Very little talk about distractions and proofing and no talk about corrections, or what to do if your dog blows you off...

Okay Connie,
Here's the keys to the wine cellar. I don't need them anymore. Actually I don't think they're of any use to anyone anymore. But that's another story.

So I'll throw my hat into the ring again.
This author L.C.Kelly, I don't know if anyone else has noted, earns his living as a rag pulp crime fiction writer. And besides his blog I couldn't find anything to indicate he has any standing in the behavioral studies or training of the dog. He cites Dr. Mech's studies and the training methods of a K. Behan to give some credence to his gee whiz pop psychology, though I doubt somehow either one has ever heard of him or his fantastic new insights into the candide psyche.
My suggest to LCK is; that until we actually have a Vulcan mind melder we'll just have to do the best we can, because otherwise we're never going to know. So he should use his mind reading skills on the fictional characters in his books and stop pretending he has some special view into the dogs very being.

Why he wants to dump on a highly successful trainer like C. Milan is beyond me. Whether or not I agree with Mr. Milan's methods or conclusions the fact of the matter is he probably sees and helps more dogs and owners in six months then this LCK has known his entire life. Other than self aggrandizing by what right or authority does this Kelly claim in relegating Cesar Milan to the ranks of the overbearing preditory bully?

Now we need a show of hands. How many out there have known for quite sometime, intuitively if nothing else, that pack structures are a lot more nuanced than a simple higherarchy of Alpha Beta Omega? Well now you know my issues with Dr. Mech.
He would have us believe we are all wrong in how we think about wolves and dogs only because we use the wrong words to describe the social network of the pack.
Why all the hubris over what words to use just seems like a waste of valuable energy on his part to me.

Dear Dr. can we start talking about the canine species again, and forget the semantics?

Randy

Hmm. I just read that article and to the passing dog owner it reads like the Grail. From my perspective, what a crock.

How does a herbivorous prey item suddenly become a predator when the "fight" instinct of fight or flight kicks in? LCK starts to mention the sharp, pointy, things that some prey are armed with but he draws the wrong conclusion based on, I feel, some degree of anthropomorphism. Yes, the wolf is showing fear but not because it thinks the moose is going to chase him/her down and have dinner. It's the fact that an injured predator will often die and many prey items are capable of inflicting mortal wounds. This is readily shown on Discovery documentaries, mostly with lions...that also have a pack hierarchy. It's a basic survival instinct and why predators target the weak, young, and old.

When Rasta was a pup (he's 13 now) I didn't have a clue what pack structure was. He slept on my bed until he was seven months old and on the pillow next to me until he outgrew it. I play fought with him, got down on his level, let him have affection or play time whenever he wanted, let him go through doors first, and generally let him run the show. He was my first dog and I thought I was letting him be a dog. At about a year and a half old he was on the bed and I was slap boxing with him which was one of his favorite games. I was done but he wasn't so he bit him on the stomach and kept trying to go at it. Thankfully it wasn't a serious corrective bite, but it did bruise. That's what following poor advice like LCK's will get you and it could've been a lot worse. I recently read a story on another forum about a young model who's pit literally ripped half of her face off, because she was nose to nose with it and didn't believe in pack structure...per her uncle's words. Needless to say, her budding career is now over and her pet is no more.

randy, i agree with what you're saying here. however, after reading some of LCK's other blog posts, I get the impression in addition to his writing he also does consulting as a dog behaviorist.

So do I.
Doesn't make me an expert.
It just makes people gullible.