Hey Ray, remember you're not training a Police dog or a protection dog. If you're looking to title in schutzhund the sport calls for a calm, firm grip on the sleeve. Whatever the reason for him thrashing around on it, whether its because he's tough as hell and would rather bite the helpers leg or wants to take the sleeve and get away from the helper asap, if it turns into him coming off that sleeve you won't title. I know a little bit about that, Lol.

Hey Dennis,
I meant no disrespect whatsoever, your girl has a beautiful smile(assuming that's her in your picture), I would definetly not want to mess with her. THat's for sure.

I hear you Steve. He stays on the sleeve does a little headshaking action and growls all throughout. I don't think he will come off of the sleeve, at least not at this point from what I've seen. He likes biting it too much,lol.

Jenni I'm curious, you mentioned you don't do sports. Instead you do things to bring out your dog's natural drives/tendencies. I'm interested in finding out what kind of work you do with him, and how you work with his natural drives/tendencies.

Thanks,
Ray

Edited by Ray Fajardo (06/30/2009 10:44 AM)
Edit reason: addt'l info

Actually Steve, I would like to go the "Protection route" after titling him. I say "protection" for lack of a better word but basically I would just like to bring out his genetic potential/character whatever that may be and get to better know his genetic character.

The reason for titling would just be for reference reasons...ie most people do not like to purchase a pup from non titled parents basically.

What I meant by that Ray, was that I quickly realized that Sch. wasn't his thing. Instead of conditioning him to change the "style" he fights in, I dropped that whole idea and just did PP training instead- purely civil in nature. I have done no prey/play work w/him whatsoever. Interestingly, and I think this speaks to what I said earlier about frame of mind as it pertains to biting...I will play w/him and a sleeve and he is a big happy sport dog extraordinaire- he bites calm and full and hangs on. And he will run in stupid circles w/it, too. It's a game and he knows it, and he's very careful not to really get me. He pulls the sleeve away from my arm before he bites down, he never even gets close to my wrist/hand area, and he outs immediately. IF I'M THE ONE HE'S BITING. If it's someone else, he tends to get a little dirty; if/when they fight him, he gets dirtier. Outing is not his specialty.

I also do/did (I have been slacking lately) a lot of obstacle work w/him. I like a dog to be solid on any footing, at any height, in any environment, and be able to and interested in a real fight in any of those settings. I would much rather have the dog who will run and jump up and fight you on the top of a one ton truck with some violent head thrashing than the dog who is calm on the sleeve and afraid to get up on the truck. The dog who flies into the truck via the window for a bite/figtht is cool in my book, too.

Before anyone gets pissy, NO, I am not saying all Sch. dogs who are calm on the sleeve are weak. It was just an analogy.

If you are really curious, PM me so I don't bore everyone else w/pics and descriptions that they have heard a hundred times over the past 5 years. LOL.

 Quote: jenni williams

What I meant by that Ray, was that I quickly realized that Sch. wasn't his thing. Instead of conditioning him to change the "style" he fights in, I dropped that whole idea and just did PP training instead- purely civil in nature. I have done no prey/play work w/him whatsoever. Interestingly, and I think this speaks to what I said earlier about frame of mind as it pertains to biting...

*GASP* You mean... *stutter* prey drive isn't *choke* EVERYTHING?

BLASPHEMY!!!!

SHH!

 Quote:

To each his own; I do think it's a slippery slope though when we start breeding dogs specifically to excel at certain sports. I think we lose balance and NATURAL drives in favor of over the top prey/play or maybe full calm grips, or other singular qualities instead of concentrating on a well-rounded, strong dog.

I agree.

I'm confused by natural drive though. What do you mean by that? It's been my experience that drives are genetic and training can only effect what is already there.

 Quote:

But one of my biggest beefs now is the plethoria of breeders that breed Malinois for SchH only. To me that is doing the breed a disservice. When I look at a breeder I want to see a total cross pollination of disciples from Ring, SchH SAR, PSD, Herding etc etc. A well rounded breeding program whose progeny title in not just one discipline will consistently produce well -rounded dogs.

Great post.

This is shaping up to be a VERY nice thread.