 Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Heather Perring ]
#246068 - 07/09/2009 02:46 PM |
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Charging the mark...When told "yes" he won't respond very well to voice, and won't move until you hold the treat out for him to take.
Have you tried using a clicker?
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Heather Perring ]
#246069 - 07/09/2009 02:52 PM |
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Charging the mark...When told "yes" he won't respond very well to voice, and won't move until you hold the treat out for him to take.
That's what charging the marker IS. Mark, then hand over wonderful treat.
If the marker is "yes," then what you want is for the dog to perceive that "yes" means "reward coming!" Charging the marker is nothing else. No other lesson. Just marker equals wonderful reward.
So "yes" and hand the dog a treat. A fabulous one! Eventually, when you say "yes" the dog will look to you for the treat. Then you know that you have successfully charged the marker.
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#246070 - 07/09/2009 02:54 PM |
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And until the maker IS charged, no marker training is attempted. 
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#246072 - 07/09/2009 03:10 PM |
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And now for something completely different.
The bridging.
If you're going to follow marker training (and why not?), beg borrow or steal a book, a video, free down loads here at Leerburg, heck corner someone you see working their dog at the local park, whatever but reseach operant conditioning.
You and your dog will soon get on the same page.
Randy
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: randy allen ]
#246073 - 07/09/2009 03:14 PM |
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And now for something completely different.
The bridging.
If you're going to follow marker training (and why not?), beg borrow or steal a book, a video, free down loads here at Leerburg, heck corner someone you see working their dog at the local park, whatever but reseach operant conditioning.
You and your dog will soon get on the same page.
Randy
TOADALLY!
But not quite yet for the IB.
I'm reading that the marker (terminal bridge) hasn't actually been loaded. Do you agree?
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#246074 - 07/09/2009 03:32 PM |
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Took him out in the yard in a different area and went back to loading the mark, I'm going to try and work with him myself from scratch. He seemed to know what 'Yes' was, as soon as I said it he nose-waved his head in the direction of where my hands normally are ( I kept them behind my back ) looking for food but he only reacted like that when he was at a stand still.
Tried to get him moving by backing up and marking as he followed but he didn't show any indicators of hearing me say yes, only ate the food when I handed it to him.
Had him on a leash as well so he couldn't wander. Still, sniffing and scanning the area seemed way more important to him that who held the food, but I am going to do this a few more times and see if he gets it.
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Heather Perring ]
#246075 - 07/09/2009 03:39 PM |
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.... Tried to get him moving by backing up and marking as he followed but he didn't show any indicators of hearing me say yes, only ate the food when I handed it to him. .... Had him on a leash as well so he couldn't wander. Still, sniffing and scanning the area seemed way more important to him that who held the food, but I am going to do this a few more times and see if he gets it.
I still think you're getting ahead of yourself. All you want right now is for the dog to get the connection between the marker and the wonderful reward.
Take him inside. Why do this outdoors in distraction-ville?  Start with a pre-dinner (hungry) dog. Forget about whether he is moving, and you don't even want him to observe/care/know "who holds the food." 
Just give the marker and hand over the food. That's all. This is successful when you see the dog look for the food as soon as you have given the marker.
Are you using a great (but tiny) reward? Is your verbal marker clear and bright? Are you saying the marker without reaching for the reward at the same time? (Two separate but close-in-time for now actions.)
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#246077 - 07/09/2009 03:53 PM |
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Yep,
I agree Connie.
Some how though she's missing what 'moves' the dog.
Once she finds that key the marker loads very quickly and the bridge starts it's important work.
I guess I just wanted to say that there's more to it then giving the dog food or a toy and that she should have a plan and idea about where she's going. ie. read and/or study a whole plan before starting it all, as opposed to patching it together as she goes along.
If the dog doesn't turn on for food or a toy. She is going to need some imagination and experientation to find what does do it.
My suggestion on that front is to become engaged with the dog. Something turns the dog on. Use that.
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: randy allen ]
#246079 - 07/09/2009 04:06 PM |
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Yes, I see.
I was going more on a "get the one first step in place" plan .... and I like food simply because it's so convenient and easy to carry and easily "timed." Of course, this means that the dog must be foody (or just plain hungry in that moment) and/or that the rewards are fabulous (think cooked bacon pieces). All the other currency that we use for the individual dog, for me, comes into the plan after the marker is clear.
And yes, I absolutely see the lack of engagement that you are seeing, but I don't know how to address it. I wish we had video, but we don't, so I was hoping for really descriptive session notes.
And Heather, please don't be offended by a discussion of you in which you're not addressed. Honestly, truly, we are all trying to help.
You are great for keeping on trying without clarity, and we are trying to provide it.
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Re: Trouble with Drive?
[Re: randy allen ]
#246080 - 07/09/2009 04:10 PM |
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I agree with Randy, too. I read and re-read, listened, watched the same things over and over on this site before I even tried it with my dog. After that, I got the DVD.
Maybe it just takes me longer to fully understand things but it took me a while to "get it" that I didn't have to give the command (such as sit, down).
I think when it finally "clicked" was teaching her the place. I would drop the treat on her rug or pillow like they do in the video and wait for her to find it.
She is also one of those dogs who is searching the floor for more morsels.
I just wait until she realizes there is nothing else there.
But, the marker (Yes!, in my case spoken lively and light.) has to be charged or else you aren't really marker training.
One of the easiest (I think) is the 'look at me'. That also keeps the dog focused on me and not on the floor/ground.
Hope this helps.
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