HA! Funny.

Heather, I suggest you blow their minds completely and bring up the subject of raw feeding! You may have readers passing out at their keyboards! You'll have people saying you need an e-collar because you feed your dogs to make them vicious.

I go to a dog training class at a local dog club. I go to practice training Cali with a lot of distractions, in a different kind of environment. (She's 9 months.) When I showed up for the first class with a prong collar, I got a "talking to." I was told to get the "easy walk harness" (which I do own) instead. And I quote, "you can accomplish the same control with physics rather than pain. I only do 100% positive training." Well, good luck with that.

You ever try to give a correction with a "easy walk"? IG-nored.

I don't have experience belonging to other forums, but do read them occasionally for kicks. What I find the most interesting is that people get so hung up on sticking like glue to their own methods that they forget that dogs are individuals. Each dog gets the same training irregardless of drive and temperament. Or you'll find someone who's trained one or two cooperative pets by purely positive means, berating someone who has a much tougher dog because the "all positive" stuff doesn't cut it for them.

As much as I love the theory and idea behind "all positive", the reality is that most of my dogs have had a will of their own. Maybe if I were a more skilled handler I could have muddled through with no corrections, but probably not. I rarely use corrections, but sometimes they have been necessary. It's just not safe for anyone concerned to have 75-95 pound dogs walking all over you.

Common sense is not terribly common, unfortunately, but there is a good deal of it here. I like it here, and haven't felt any inclination to stray.

Linda, I have done some work with the Sensation harness sold here and liked it fine for certain things. Of course, that was AFTER the leash training, AFTER learning to work through distractions, AFTER working through some leash reactivity, etc. For all of that, my prong collar was the first tool I reached for.

 Quote: kristel smart

Linda, I have done some work with the Sensation harness sold here and liked it fine for certain things. Of course, that was AFTER the leash training, AFTER learning to work through distractions, AFTER working through some leash reactivity, etc. For all of that, my prong collar was the first tool I reached for.

Good point. I agree, it is a perfectly fine walking device that works well. But I have a 9 month old puppy who is of a temperament that is quite "hard" and can be willful. She needs what she needs, and the training without corrections is not going to be part of our game. I mean, even Ed who is as skilled a trainer as you can get, does not use 100% positive methods. He will adapt corrections and scale up or down depending on the dog, but it's an immutable element throughout. Good enough for me.

 Quote:

...I have a 9 month old puppy who is of a temperament that is quite "hard" and can be willful. She needs what she needs, and the training without corrections is not going to be part of our game.

Exactly! I've SO been there!

 Quote: meredith hamilton

"People don't want to hear that they have to change the way the live with their dog, even if it will solve their problem."

So true!!! Not just anonymous internet forums, it's everywhere. I have friends I can't bear to be around any longer due to the way they neglect their dog's mental and physical health. The same people who marvel at what a wonderful dog Ripley is. I cannot count the number of times I've explained that a little work and decent food would get them a dog more like Ripley than not. Aaaaarrrgggghhh. Blood pressure rising again...

No doubt. My wife used to have a friend who's idea of dominance was biting her 100lbs.+ dog on the back of the neck. We tried to teach her the right way of doing things and she thought we were stupid.

Speaking of real life. What I love are the ghastly looks some people give me when they see me walking my dog on his prong. I also get some pretty strange looks from passersby when I'm doing tug training in the front yard. You can almost see the "that dog's going to bite you!" thought. One concerned citizen informed me that AC would take my dog because I was letting him playfully mouth my hand.

 Quote: linda patch

 Quote: kristel smart

Linda, I have done some work with the Sensation harness sold here and liked it fine for certain things. Of course, that was AFTER the leash training, AFTER learning to work through distractions, AFTER working through some leash reactivity, etc. For all of that, my prong collar was the first tool I reached for.

Good point. I agree, it is a perfectly fine walking device that works well. But I have a 9 month old puppy who is of a temperament that is quite "hard" and can be willful. She needs what she needs, and the training without corrections is not going to be part of our game. I mean, even Ed who is as skilled a trainer as you can get, does not use 100% positive methods. He will adapt corrections and scale up or down depending on the dog, but it's an immutable element throughout. Good enough for me.

Even Michael Ellis talks about using corrections when needed. I've gotten to the point with a few people on the internet that I've posted a few Micheal Ellis links and said "when you can train a dog better than him you can say he doesn't know what he's going".

 Quote: heather perring

So..anyone else out there had any bad experiences with other dog forums?

It's so amusing how many purely positive dog owners that are out there that absolutely FLIP when you mention prong or e-collars. I've been practically run out for even suggesting one. Trying to explain how an e-collar works is useless. Apparently I'm an abusive dog owner who should be fined and have all my dogs taken away permanently. Oh and I'm also lazy for taking the easy way out and making my dogs so fearful of me that they obey anything to make the pain stop. I love this line.."Would you shock/jerk your kids around!?" Lol. If I didn't think it was mildly funny I think I'd get so mad I'd choke some people for the nonsense crap they spout about these things.

That's why I'm here now! Even though I use a heck of a lot of positive reinforcement with my dogs during training to get great results, I'm still a bad seed who hasn't moved on because I own two prong collars, I'm not afraid to correct my dogs if I feel it's justified and I don't clicker train (it's just a personal thing for me, I don't think badly of it, just doesn't work for my lack of co-ordination).

I don't post much any more on the two forums that I used to frequent. Too many people touting purely positive is the be-all-end-all and nothing else works. And I can't agree with that. Heck, I love positive reinforcement, it works so well, and the dogs give such a happy, drivey performance for it, but there are still instances when corrections are warranted.

Heck, I was even told that teaching my girlie some awesome, drivey weaves through the luring method (because trust me, nothing else worked for my little dog, no channels, no wires, no shaping, etc.) was not the best because I should have shaped for a better result. Dogs who are shaped during weave training weave better than my dog. Ha! Posted a video of her weaving...never heard a reply back.

I just really don't like the "one way is the only way" approach to training, and that's how it seems to be on many of the forums out there.

Linda,

I have been looking into dog training clubs to practice for the CGC, and I can't find one without the "purely positive" approach.

My dog NEEDS corrections. When she gets into high gear it is impossible to refocus her without them. She doesn't even hear what you are saying and she doesn't give a darn about treats. I'd like to see the trainers that give people crap about prongs try to hang on and refocus my dog while a cat runs by.

She's a sweetie pie, she just has a level of determination and drive that most dogs don't. I wish I could find a SchH club that also trains for AKC stuff.

Its so frustrating. In order to practice for the CGC I might need to sign up for an obedience course, which I can't afford right now and I don't really need!

 Quote: steve strom

Not agitation Anne. Just for everyday stuff. I bought him a pretty blue one cause I didnt want him to hurt himself. But then just before I went over the edge and became a "Guardian" I saw a nice new Sprenger with a snap buckle, and Bam! Pulled me right back into responsible ownership.

Way to go Steve.

Lauren,

I hear you. This class at the club (Charles River Dog Training Club) is just one small part of what I'm working on. My main goal there is to practice focus. The first time we went, she was like a bad child in church! But over the past month, she (mostly) focuses like a laser beam on me when we're working in there. So you could think about using a class like that--then work on transferring that focus to other situations in the outside world. Baby steps, always baby steps. We'll finish up three more weeks, and likely won't go back for a while--until tracking season.

We just started working 1:1 with Scott Dunmore who you see in some Leerburg videos. That's where I'm really going to learn to train. After more foundation work, we will move into sport obedience. That is much more suited to her temperament and drive than AKC ring work. Plus, it's a lot more fun for me.

If you want, you can get a prong collar cover. Problem solved. Personally, I don't care, but I can see where it can save you from hearing lip from annoying people.

Link removed.
Mod Edit:
Linda, it's consider poor form to link to another site for a product that is sold here....

Will Rambeau
Moderator