Vincent,
I'm having a hard time getting my mind around exactly what this trainer is proposing. Or what he hoping to build that can't be done with very good success by other more tried and proven methods.
I'm afraid you're going to have to be more explicit about this training regimen.

From what you've said though, it sounds very like a fad of the week club.

 Quote: anne jones

 Quote: robert kirkwood

Stress for a protection dog on the sleeve is added once they have learned many times they can win in this situation. stress is added in small doses and the dog is still successful (wins the prey.) so the dog remains confident because he has been successful in the past. there is a huge difference between that and stressing the dog till he "refuses" as you said

DITTO. Confidence is something that develops with success. When the dog wins, he/she leans that they CAN win & more confidance builds over time to the point that the dog feels that it can win in ANY situation & goes into confrontation KNOWING & ASURED that it WILL win.

Vincent, you will be hard pressed to find someone here that is training with those methods. Like it was stated earlier, you may be better able to find people using these proposed methods elsewhere.

thank you, but if you dont think you can help me, why must i leave the forum just stop posting on this thread, and if one of the thousands of actual dog trainers on this forum that may have some information that can actually expand my knowledge base may have something to share of substance, to just post because you like to see your words published is not the type of response i expected when i joined this site

Ed sells dominant dog collard and describe the method of stringing up a dog when dealing with a very aggressive and dominant dog, this practice is not agreed with universally but he is not attacked for it on this site (his dvd on dominant dogs and the collar he sells have been used by me and saved my last dogs life) just because something is different or not within your experience dose not make it bull shit, if I'm not able to articulate the method so as to elicit a knowledgeable response, maybe some one with more experience will

thank you

 Quote: vincent mancuso

 Quote: betty waldron

Just out of curiosity does this trainer talk a lot about "natural" drives?

no, what is that?

Good question. There's a group of people that follow one person/method whatever that do a lot of agility/obstacle type training with scent training and protection training.

He's a bit controversial so when you carefully did not mention names I wondered if that is who you are talking about.

Vincent,
if it's a type of training you think you may persue why are you tenitive to put it out there? This may be a troll folks.......

 Quote: Al Curbow

Vincent,
if it's a type of training you think you may persue why are you tenitive to put it out there? This may be a troll folks.......

i dont know what a troll is, but why would i put someone in that position that didn't ask for the exposure,

now my intentions for joining this forum was to learn from more experienced handlers and trainers, but no new info has come my way yet in this thread

Mr. Mancuso,

I've read your posts and the responses and your responses, and so forth.

It seems clear to me that you either don't want the opinion of others or are one of those rare folks who only want opinions that reinforce your predispositions.

After 40 or so years around GSDs, my opinion is simply that I think the approach the trainer you cite advocates is questionable.

I have gone through any number of training approaches through the years, and I think holding a dog upside down is just plain dumb. Whatever outcome your trainer is trying to accomplish can be accomplished with easier approaches.

Dogs can be trained to overcome natural aversions, like walking on an horizontal ladder off the ground. Most dogs are not all that excited about that little drill but with patience, and reward, the dog can be trained to climb a ladder, walk on a plank above the ground, sit on the plank turn on the plank, etc. It is a test of the dog's trust in you and its ability to respond to training that will challenge its natural aversion to walking on 'suspended' structures. Mine do it, and I can't immagine how holding a dog upside down would have enhanced the training.

Over and above that, if the idea is to have the dog trust you and be confident that in your challenges it won't be gratuitously harmed, there are simple reward approaches that can accomplish that end.

You seem to have a penchant for taking training observations out of context and then citing them as a refrutation of an observation not consistent with your preconceptions. I mean really, who can offer an opinion in such a context.

And you don't even have a dog yet... C'mon! The people who have tried to 'wrap their minds around what you are offering' are people with a history of thoughtful commentary based on their years of experience with actual dog handling and training to a number of varied ends. That they can't figure you out is not their problem.

The opinion you reject is the general opinion that the training approach you are asking about is not one most here would undertake. My meager 40 years of GSDs prompts me to conclude that you need to re-view Ed's tapes. And then you might peruse the many, many posts having to do with training dogs on this site. And finally, you might open your ears, re-read the comments, and either clarify issues raised so that even a person such as myself might grasp the subtle nuances you find us incapable of considering, or not.

Frankly, Scarlet, given your tone and approach to seeking information and opinions, I'm not sure I give a darn.

 Quote: mike arnold

Mr. Mancuso,

I've read your posts and the responses and your responses, and so forth.

It seems clear to me that you either don't want the opinion of others or are one of those rare folks who only want opinions that reinforce your predispositions.

After 40 or so years around GSDs, my opinion is simply that I think the approach the trainer you cite advocates is questionable.

I have gone through any number of training approaches through the years, and I think holding a dog upside down is just plain dumb. Whatever outcome your trainer is trying to accomplish can be accomplished with easier approaches.

Dogs can be trained to overcome natural aversions, like walking on an horizontal ladder off the ground. Most dogs are not all that excited about that little drill but with patience, and reward, the dog can be trained to climb a ladder, walk on a plank above the ground, sit on the plank turn on the plank, etc. It is a test of the dog's trust in you and its ability to respond to training that will challenge its natural aversion to walking on 'suspended' structures. Mine do it, and I can't immagine how holding a dog upside down would have enhanced the training.

Over and above that, if the idea is to have the dog trust you and be confident that in your challenges it won't be gratuitously harmed, there are simple reward approaches that can accomplish that end.

You seem to have a penchant for taking training observations out of context and then citing them as a refrutation of an observation not consistent with your preconceptions. I mean really, who can offer an opinion in such a context.

And you don't even have a dog yet... C'mon! The people who have tried to 'wrap their minds around what you are offering' are people with a history of thoughtful commentary based on their years of experience with actual dog handling and training to a number of varied ends. That they can't figure you out is not their problem.

The opinion you reject is the general opinion that the training approach you are asking about is not one most here would undertake. My meager 40 years of GSDs prompts me to conclude that you need to re-view Ed's tapes. And then you might peruse the many, many posts having to do with training dogs on this site. And finally, you might open your ears, re-read the comments, and either clarify issues raised so that even a person such as myself might grasp the subtle nuances you find us incapable of considering, or not.

Frankly, Scarlet, given your tone and approach to seeking information and opinions, I'm not sure I give a darn.

well that post was informative,,,lol,,,, but i think you misunderstood the holding the dog upside down thing, and your tone is confrontational, and you really didn't give me any new incite so ya basically your just arguing with me, so this forum is just "lets pile on the new guy" where every one feels better about themselves by attacking instead of trying to help anyone with a real question, hmmm, well this will be my last post as I'm sure i could get more information talking to a group of kindergarteners

Vincent,
It's hard to know what you're even talking about. Provide a link if your not trolling.