Hang in there Natalya and Oscar. You know that we are all thinking of you and sending you healing thoughts. I won't say not to fret, because I know that's exactly what I would be doing.

Hugs to the big guy when you see him again.

--Kel and the Pack

Thank you all so much.

Vet called with news that initial blood panels look good, so they're going to skip the ultrasound (not concerned with pancreatitis) and just keep watch and do the esophageal scope when they can fit him in. Apparently his drooling has subsided/stopped (maybe due to anti-nausea meds) and he's laying down in his run (not sure if he was laying down when they had him yesterday, but he certainly didn't want to do it for me very much at home...).

Will definitely keep updating - I expect to hear more in another hour or so. My fingers are crossed that he's just got a very upset tummy over yesterday's ordeal, and not some chunk of bone in his throat that will require invasive treatment (though it would be just like Oscar to prove that A. raw fed dogs DO bloat, and B. raw chicken bones CAN splinter and cause damage during swallowing!... that's my boy... )

~Natalya

Been thinking of you.
Hoping for the best.

Okay, vet called, here's the scoop:

They administered some sort of throat coating/relaxant earlier in the day that seemed to make him much more comfortable (indicating issue might likely be in his esophagus). Then they sedated him and proceeded to scope his throat and tummy - the throat was red and inflamed in spots, especially directly where it connects with the stomach, and there appeared to be much more food still in his stomach than should be after 36 hours. They removed as much of the stomach contents as they could and checked the top of the small intestine as well, which she said looked a bit "abnormal" in texture and redness, so they took a sample which they can send out for testing, or hold on to for testing at a later date. She was neither here nor there with that issue, since it could very well just be inflamed because of the trauma his digestive system as been in since friday morning, but it could also possibly be something else.

Her best guess, but of course we can't know for certain, is that something irritated his esophagus and the addition of stress induced the bloat after a meal... but the undigested food is suspect. Of course since he's raw fed she was quick to talk about the bone issue and that some dogs just stop being able to tolerate certain things as they age... he'll be on a super soft, bland diet for a while while everything heals, but I'm wondering if I need to make some adjustments to his diet now, in regards to bone (mainly just grinding it all, not switching to cooked foods or pre-made) - I certainly don't want this to ever happen again, but I'm honestly skeptical that he's suddenly not tolerating solid bone - he was completely healthy, normal appetite, poops, everything, up until friday's breakfast... I like the addition of a proper probiotic everyday, but I think he'll miss crunching up his chicken backs...

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Connie?

They wanted to keep the pupper till tomorrow morning, they're still hydrating him and keeping close tabs on his improvement. I'm a little lost - BF has been away for the last month, and now I'm without my dog...

~Natalya

Well, Natalya, if you were closer I would loan you Caterina to snuggle with to cure the lonliness Personally, I can't sleep when one of the dogs spends the night at the vet. I worry too much about them.

Glad to hear that he's doing better, and out of immediate danger. Hopefully you will find the culprit and this will never happen again!!!

Hugs!!

--Kel and the Pack

If that diagnosis remains the same, I would absolutely give bland soft food. I'd probably give it long enough for his inflamed esophagus and gut to completely heal. I'd probably give it long enough that I would actually supplement it with calcium because of the missing bone (unless you mean soft commercial canned food or THK or similar calcium-balanced food).

I'd be watching his poop to make sure the food was going through and also to look for anything undigested. What was the food they suggested? Cooked homemade? I'd be sure to give good probiotics and fish oil (digestion and anti-inflammation). I might even consider the Prozyme here: http://leerburg.com/othersources.htm and here http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/174529/page/4

Then later I'd give serious thought to relying on chicken backs from young chickens for his RMBs (soft bones) with the variety coming in the form of added muscle meat from other sources.

All JMO, with the theory they have at this time, and I'm not a health professional.

What was Friday's breakfast, BTW?

 Quote: Kelly At Leerburg

Well, Natalya, if you were closer I would loan you Caterina to snuggle with to cure the lonliness Personally, I can't sleep when one of the dogs spends the night at the vet. I worry too much about them.

Thanks Kelly - that sure would be nice! I don't know how well I'll sleep either... it was hard enough taking a little nap this afternoon. But I know he's in good hands, and hopefully the worst is past (but I won't hold my breath, as that's exactly what I though last night at this hour).

~Natalya

 Quote: connie sutherland

If that diagnosis remains the same, I would absolutely give bland soft food. I'd probably give it long enough for his inflamed esophagus and gut to completely heal. I'd probably give it long enough that I would actually supplement it with calcium because of the missing bone (unless you mean soft commercial canned food or THK or similar calcium-balanced food).

I think I was thinking simple chicken breast or ground beef, boiled, with rice mush, at first... then adding in organ meat, salmon oil, and some raw muscle meat (minus bone - so yes, calcium supplement if that went on for over a week). I could do THK for simplicity, I guess.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I'd be watching his poop to make sure the food was going through and also to look for anything undigested. What was the food they suggested? Cooked homemade? I'd be sure to give good probiotics and fish oil (digestion and anti-inflammation). I might even consider the Prozyme here: http://leerburg.com/othersources.htm and here http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/174529/page/4

Definitely. His poop all looked normal up until this incident, and he's on daily salmon oil, vit E, and yogurt already. Will definitely start a stronger daily probiotic though. And I think the vet was thinking boiled ground beef or chicken and rice to start, then switching to one of those home cooked diets... which I don't really want to do (I need to check out their references yet - they said they've got sample home cooked diets on their website...).

 Quote: connie sutherland

Then later I'd give serious thought to relying on chicken backs from young chickens for his RMBs (soft bones) with the variety coming in the form of added muscle meat from other sources.

All JMO, with the theory they have at this time, and I'm not a health professional.

What was Friday's breakfast, BTW?

I know you're not a health professional, but you sure are a phenomenal resource Connie, I always appreciate, and highly value your input.

Friday's breakfast, if I remember correctly, was a chicken back, a small handful of ground beef, a lump of beef kidney, salmon oil, vit E, and grated fresh zucchini. In the evenings he gets a similar mix of meat, just a slightly smaller portion, with yogurt, a whole raw egg occasionally, instead of the oil and E. I stopped giving bones other than chicken after the root canal a few years ago, so his protein variety already comes from muscle and organ meat, as opposed to bone. I'll see what I can do about "young chicken" backs, but I may not have that many options using my current suppliers, hence the thoughts of grinding them up. So you think it's a plausible hypothesis that his system could just not be able to handle bigger bones anymore?

~Natalya

Natalya,

Poor Oscar and poor you. When Thor was sick last year my husband was working out of town and my kids were visiting him the first night Thor had to stay at the vets. It was horrible for all the the obvious reasons and also because I found out my childhood fear of monsters under the bed was having a come back. A good friend met me at a Mexican restaurant.....nothing a strong Margarita couldn't take care of. Isn't there an On the Border down the street from you?

There have been a few incidents of Bloat in Thor's line and his breeder has shared information with me. One thing I remember is that there is a possible connection between calcium supplementation and bloat.

I'm not sure if it was ever proven or disproven but I'll let you look it up (keeping busy helps). Keep us posted.

 Quote: sheila buckley

One thing I remember is that there is a possible connection between calcium supplementation and bloat.

I'm not sure if it was ever proven or disproven but I'll let you look it up (keeping busy helps). Keep us posted.

That's correct, that there is an apparent correlation. This means, though, supplementing an already balanced diet.

This is why you see that we just about never encourage calcium supplements here. In fact, I have even posted "If you decide to go with home-cooked for longer than a week or so, PM me and I'll help you with the calcium supplementing."

The regulars here would never do this, but I can totally imagine a newbie reading about calcium per pound and then adding it to a commercial calcium-balanced food or to RMBs.

Commercial (AFFCO) foods are balanced properly, and increasing one mineral would require adjustments to other minerals. RMBs also "come" with the perfect calcium-phosphorus ratio.

It's a slippery slope to supplement calcium, and it's not at all a good idea to think that "well, some is good, so more is better." Supplementing calcium is for home-prepared diets that can't/don't include bone.

Excessive calcium (beyond the correct range, which does allow room for variety) can cause more than gastric problems; it's just not good -- in its own way, it's no better than not enough calcium.

I'm really glad you brought it up.