Out of curiosity David. Have you ever owned pyr's before?

Many dogs of any kind before these two?

The reason I ask is because the other 'issues' you mentioned are not da problems at all, but sound more like normal puppy behavior.

Willie Tilton. Yes!

Does she still hang around? Haven't heard from her in awhile now.
She had quite the resume with pyr's and critters didn't she?

 Quote: David Jones

...it seems like everyone is skipping the part where I have mentioned that this dog has challenged me before during totally unrelated issues, like me correcting him for mouthing me or when he has knock over my 1.5 year old because he shoved his face in my child's face.

David, completely off topic, but I don't understand the idea of correcting a pup for mouthing you, they are puppies that is what they do. Redirection is best until they grow out of it. I don't allow my dog to knock my kid over either, that is why until she learned to respect his space, she was leashed when around him. As with all of my other dogs. Neither of these incidents seem like challenges to me. Both seem like normal puppy behavior. Regardless of how big the pups are, the reality of the situation is that they are still puppies.

Maybe you could start a new thread with some of the situations you have been having and I'm sure people would be happy to post with some tips to help you get these guys moving along?

The reality is, if you are correcting this pup for other normal puppy behaviours when he has not had a chance to learn what behaviour you do want, you could be setting yourself up to having to deal with an insecure dog and the aggression that can come with it.

Nope and I understand they are puppy behaviors (mouthing and nose in face). The difference is that when I have corrected the girl, she accepts the correction and doesn't challenge me. When I correct the boy, he initially challenged me. I didn't accept that and he stopped in those, everything else, except for when he challenged me with the food.

We ask our dogs to do all kinds of unnatural things, including allowing us to dump water on them when we bath them while we hold them, but that doesn't mean they get to try to bite me while I am doing it.

I have had golden retrievers and I have a miniature poodle right now.

A light pop on the nose with a "No" is not the end of the world for them. None of my dogs have ever been insecure. They are confident dogs. I understand that the internet doesn't afford you to look at how I am with my dogs. They have a great relationship with me and run to me every time I am with them and LOVE training with me.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts...but I have to get some work done.

David, I think that a four month old puppy, is in many ways like a child. In the sense that they need to learn their manners and how to be a part of the family, what the rules are. But if this pup is showing some signs of aggression, showing more aggression towards the pup, will actually escalate the problem instead of de-escalate it.
Trust is what you want and a bond where you are always showing fairness. You can show your dog you have the upper hand with a bop to the nose, but your dog won't learn trust from this, only that it gets hit when he growls.


That said, if your 1.5 year old child threw a toy truck at you, and that hurt, would you bop your child in the nose because he was doing wrong? No, and why? Because this is a child.
In the situation with the pup, I feel you are not solving your true issue. Only showing the dog, I will hit you if you growl.
This will only make the dog fear your hand, and not trust that you will be fair with his food etc.

Please know that I am not trying to be confrontational, just trying to make a point.

I have absolutely zero issues with my dogs and food aggression, but it is because they trust and know that I will not take away their food, unless they just refuse to eat it.
It goes down and stays down for 20 minutes. I don't try to do anything to their food during that time.
In fact there were many times when they were pups that I hand fed them specifically for them to know and realize that I would not play any games with their food.

I think that most here are just trying to help you gain that trust with your dog, so you can have a strong bond and your dog will truly know you are pack leader by your actions of fairness and trust.

 Quote: david jones

... I'm sure I did everything wrong, but I want to know what to do right. What is the best way to take care of this NOW? These dogs will be 130 and 100 pounds for the boy and the girl respectively. I have to address this immediately but I don't know how. ...

 Quote: david jones

A light pop on the nose with a "No" is not the end of the world for them. None of my dogs have ever been insecure. They are confident dogs. I understand that the internet doesn't afford you to look at how I am with my dogs. They have a great relationship with me and run to me every time I am with them and LOVE training with me.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts...but I have to get some work done.

Mmmm. Maybe a little shopping for the answers you want?

Of course it's your ultimate decision, but the responses are not meant to challenge you.

It's great that you asked, and I think when you consider the responses, you will understand that experienced folks here are not trying to belittle you at all.

But you are getting good advice and your response is to ignore it; I'm afraid you are creating problems in your home with these pups.

David, you are creating your own problems.
Let the dogs eat in peace.

Keep the kids at a distance at all times or have the pups on a leash until the pups are trained to know that the kids have a 'bubble' around them that the pups DON'T enter. I would NEVER allow my 1 1/2 yr old to be in a posiiton for a dog ANY dog to get up into their face for any reason.

Pups will be pups. Correcting a 4 month old pup is silly. It is a baby.

David I have to wonder what your other 2 dogs are like as far as training....because based on what you have stated here...It doesn't sound like you really know what you are doing. Nor do you seem to really want to hear what anyone says that is trying to help you.

Raising 2 pups at the same time is very hard & time consuming. A few of us here have done it. It is not easy. I had a 9 1/2 mo old & an 9 week old (& a 3 yr old) at the same time. I gotta tell ya, I had my hands full with trining. None of them have food aggression issues or have growled or bitten me. And I NEVER took food away from them after giving it to them to 'teach' them not to be food aggressive! I can take high valued food from them, but that doesn't mean that I do or that I have to to proove anything to them. They know who provides their food.

Good luck with your pups.

A 4 month old puppy doesn't have the mental capacity to understand any of what you are asking of it, let alone why its getting its nose smacked. It sounds like you came to all of your conclusions before you even posted judging by the fact you posted in the "aggressive dog" section. I think you are overcorrecting this puppy based on assumptions. It sounds as if you have already convinced yourself that this pup is aggressive and nothing we say is going to change that. I am left wondering what kind of response you expected to get when you originally posted.

As the others have already stated, good luck with the puppies.