Todd,
You said that you don't agree with correcting the snot out of your dogs because it teaches them to deal with things violently, Well I guarantee you if she bites me again that is not the message she will get out of it. She will be thinking..hmmm...When I bite him he makes me think Im going to die!!! Maybe I shouldn't bite him anymore??? That is how I think on this. I do make her sit before we go through doors and I can play with her food and feed it to her all day long. I think this was a one time thing maybe? I will guarantee you though if it happens again she will definately know who is the pack leader around here one way or the other.

STONER

Also do you guys think a female or a male tends to be more dominant in the household?
Stoner

stoner, it depends on the dog and the household.
I've had both female and male

 Quote:

Originally posted by stonerspitbull:
She will be thinking..hmmm...When I bite him he makes me think Im going to die!!! Maybe I shouldn't bite him anymore???

Are you sure that's a wise course of action? Are you positive that she will respond in the way you are predicting? Are you certain that you could win a knock-down-drag-out with your dog, and even if you could, is this what you want your leadership to be based upon?

If your dog doesn't respect your leadership, do you think that there might be safer, more effective ways of changing that?

It's like this: you can either be a benevolent dictator, or a despotic tyrant. Both are forms of leadership, but one is destined to be violently overthrown, while the other is likely to stay in power. Which would you prefer?

Before anyone accuses me of being too soft, that's not where I'm coming from. I'd just hate to see someone lose face...literally. Plus, I'm not convinced that the dog isn't simply behaving how she has been taught, as unintentional as it may be; see Todd's remarks.

Oh, and on the dominance thing, my husband will tell you that the males tend to be more dominant; and he has my permission to say so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stoner, I think you are correct. If it happens again show her who is alpha.

I just skimmed this thread so I apologize if I missed something.

With a 12 month old dog I think you don't want to rule out the dominance issue BUT to clear rank you don't necessarily do it with "correcting the snot" out of her. Anyone who has been to a Flinks seminar will tell you how Bernhard does this and it is very calm, clear to the dog and actually does not involve 'corrections' like we would use in training. It is a separate issue. If done PROPERLY it has nothing to do with obedience or tracking or any kind of training. It simply clears the pack order in the dog's mind. I don't necessarily want to post it here because I really feel that the way this is done is best left to the handful of pros that really understand rank.

I also want to address pain induced biting or handler aggression. While they are not the same thing I believe that they go hand in hand. I just experienced this with my 9 month old Malinois female last week. This dog is certainly not rank at all but when given a mid level correction she 'attacked'. No kidding around-no nipping. This was a full fledged "I am kicking your ass" assault. Unfortunately for my 2 year old GSD she ran up as the Mal was launching and the Mal said, "Hey, you'll do!" and then I almost had a dog fight on my hands. I found out that while my dog is very soft, she has a low threshold for pain and will react with fight. We were at the lake swimming and she would not listen so I corrected her and HOLY COW....

I think we are all talking about two different issues here. One issue is how to deal with this kind of dog on a general basis and I agree....no need for all hard ass all the time. The other issue is dealing specifically with getting bit. That's why I asked Todd what he would do specifically in that instance. Do I say take the dog and make it non stop hard ass compulsion 24 hours a day? Absolutely not!!!! Use more positive obedience training methods to prevent behavior before it happens. If I get bit though....all bets are off. Sorry folks, that's just me. Not saying I'm right or know it all....probably just annoyingly stubborn.LOL

I also uderstand the handler error/unfair correction end of things as well. I look at it like this, an unfair correction is a clear mistake by the handler, needs to be addressed, and may be a REASON for the aggressive behavior but cannot be accepted as an EXCUSE for aggressive behavior.

and may be a REASON for the aggressive behavior but cannot be accepted as an EXCUSE for aggressive behavior. I don't think anyone is saying it is an excuse. However, the first step to correcting any behavior is understanding why it happened.

Todd: I don't think anyone is saying it is an excuse.

Chuck: Maybe not in so many words. Debatable. :rolleyes:

Todd: However, the first step to correcting any behavior is understanding why it happened.

Chuck: 100% agreement. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />