The incident that got me to make the call to the vet and make the surgical consultation was when we were hiking a short loop with my friends and their puppies. The woods, three puppies and a beautiful summer day. What could be better?

It was great until an intact male charged and mounted my poor puppy without so much as a hello.

I pulled him off and he kept coming at her. I actually started hitting and kicking at him, he was not giving up. The owner finally caught up, put him on leash and dragged him away. Sex drive is some strong stuff.

Three days before that we were at the park and I noticed neutered male dogs kept coming over to us and intensely smelling her. I didn't know enough then not to let other dogs get in our space, I thought they were just greeting. Plus she was so young I didn't think it was even possible for her to be going into season.

Pulling that dog off of her made me give serious thought to having to face that nasty neighbor dog. There was no way that I would have been able to physically fight him off if I had to.

I called our breeder and asked her advice, I was concerned about the growth and maturity issues of spaying at a young age. We came to the conclusion that since my dog is a pet it was better not to take chances.

I believe that when it comes to neutering if there is any doubt you can't keep your male dog you do not intend on breeding getting out...you get him fixed...though at an appropriate age (whether it be at 8-9 months or at two years....big dogs should wait longer and those protection sport dogs should wait until 2-3 years). I also don't think just any dog should be bred no matter how "friendly" or "nice" he is. I think temperment and drive/working ability etc, should go hand and hand with a structurally sound dog who's proven his ability to work/show/whatever his dicipline is. Studs should be held to the highest standard.

My dog was fixed at about a year and a month...why? It wasn't fair to keep him intact. I'm in an apartment complex with no yard. EVERYTHING female here is not spayed and there seems to be always someone in heat and unwatched. Keeping my dog intact would be mean that he could never go off leash, all obedience training had to all be done in a small two (modifyed into three) bedroom apartment (that's about a 12X12 space for the public living room, and 10X10 for my bedroom). That he'd loose weight since at times he would stop eating and simply lay at the door while my neighbor walked their intact female by every...single....day....4...times...a....day. I also had to put up with a lady who, every time she saw him, released whichever of her female dogs was in heat at the time to "help fufill his 'right' to have puppies" that I "denied him of". I had no intention of breeding a mutt in the future, and wouldn't be trying protection sport with this dog.

When it comes to female dogs however I believe they should be spayed if they're not going to be used for breeding and it should be done before the first heat. I'm seen to many dogs die from pyometra that would have been prevented with a simple spay and the risk goes up with each heat she's not bred. The average pet female dog....spayed....preferably before the first heat but since I can't find my research to back it up (they lock us out of the vetrinary databases in the summer here) then before the second at least. If you're the kind of owner who constantly checks their female dogs while not in heat for any signs of pyometra (which can be tough as many dogs don't show any symptoms) then by all means go ahead....but unless I was breeding that female dog I wouldn't risk it. I'd also spay any dogs done with breeding unless there was to much risk to it (age, condition, etc).

Boy, if Jenni Williams was here, she'd have us all in our place on this in a heartbeat!

When it comes right down to it, the type of person that spends time putting meaningful thought and conversation into this topic (including everyone participating here - from every side of the issue) is NOT the kind of person who will let their dog get into trouble. Whether you choose to sterilize your animals, or keep them intact for life, if you've got enough wits to research the issue to death, put in the countless hours of training, and fortify your containment situation so your dogs don't run loose - you're going to have a happy, healthy, well behaved, and hopefully long-lived companion. There are risks inherent in every choice, we choose those that are least offensive to our unique situation at any given time - assuming a certain level of intelligence and responsibility: to each his own.

For all those "other" individuals who provide the ample experiences that help make up our minds (the owners of aggressive intact male large breeds that don't believe in kennels, fences or leashes; the owners of the intact females who don't pay enough attention to their dog's health to realize they are either A. in heat, B. pregnant, C. in the early stages of life-threatening pyometria or mammary cancer, etc; and the countless careless owners of spayed and neutered animals who are 100% oblivious to the fact that they have untrained, unruly, obnoxious animals that bother everyone else in the neighborhood...) - the answer is most likely that these people plum shouldn't HAVE dogs, let alone have spayed, neutered or intact ones...

Just my 2 cents.
~Natalya

 Quote: Jamie Craig

When it comes to female dogs however I believe they should be spayed if they're not going to be used for breeding and it should be done before the first heat.

Didn't I see somewhere that it was good to wait until maturity, something about bone growth?

There are certainly many issues to learn about and weigh prior to comfortably making a decision here.

There's a certain unfairness to being called names in a language I can't understand. On topic though, we had a female boxer a long time ago that we had spayed very young. She went through a period of incontinence because she needed those hormones to develop the muscle needed to control it.

My Rott Andy was neutered at 5 because he was having prostate problems. He did lose a certain amount of aggression with it. His drivey nature didnt change as far as play and obedience, but over the course of a year or so, some of the fight went out of him.

I probably cant say with no doubt that age didnt contribute to it, but there was a change.

My current dog is the only dog I've had neutered before sexual maturity, and I did it for purely selfish reasons: I wanted to be able to take my dog anywhere, and I didn't want to deal with male/male aggression. I'm old and I've dealt with it enough, and I knew I wasn't going to breed this guy anyway.

I have noticed some differences between him and the intact males: 1)There is zero aggression to either gender (which I have to say is kind of a nice change) 2)He took longer to mature mentally, but it did happen 3) he is physically leggier than his predecessors 4) it took a little more to build up his drive, but once it was there, it was there

HOWEVER he is still a big, willful, occasionally intense dog that requires training and management. Neutering him didn't negate the need to be a responsible owner, so it's not a cure-all for somebody who wants their dog neutered to make him easier to handle. I don't believe it works that way.

He still has great focus, a fabulous work ethic and lots of energy. The jury is still out in terms of how his health might be affected.

I don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other, But WAY TOO OFTEN I've heard of people wanting to breed their pets, and it's always for some stupid reason (for the kids, etc.) and it makes me damned glad that rescues spay and neuter. At least those dogs will have one less "stupid owner" thing to worry about.

the jury is still out on this (why I couldn't go into it...can't access the databases to cite sources) there are valid arguements on both sides). For the average pet owner...before the first heat is a better idea since people tend to "forget" to do it after a while. There are risks either way. Personally, if I got another female dog I'd most likely wait until she was over a year old at least.

 Quote: steve strom

There's a certain unfairness to being called names in a language I can't understand. .

Sho'ly amazed that a big sassy truckdriver with a gorgeous gsd will roll over and say 'can't' just that quick......Woulda thought it not to be in yo' vocabulary at all.

Back on topic, I appreciate the expertise here and more than that, the way each person brings their expertise to the table but no one insists that their way is the only right way.

You forgot handsome.

 Quote: LucilleHollander

Didn't I see somewhere that it was good to wait until maturity, something about bone growth?

Yes.

This is from Chris Zink:

Orthopedic Considerations
A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, who were taller than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed).(1) A study of 1444 Golden Retrievers performed in 1998 and 1999 also found bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.(2) The sex hormones, by communicating with a number of other growth-related hormones, promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty (3), so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions and particularly the lengths (and therefore weights) of certain bones relative to others. For example, if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. In addition, sex hormones are critical for achieving peak bone density.(4) These structural and physiological alterations may be the reason why at least one recent study showed that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture.(5) Another recent study showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age, although it should be noted that in this study there were no standard criteria for the diagnosis of hip dysplasia.(6) Nonetheless, breeders of purebred dogs should be cognizant of these studies and should consider whether or not pups they bred were spayed or neutered when considering breeding decisions.

Here's the link for the whole article:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

leih