The breeder told me they would not walk in their poop. I thought it was funny because puppies are to little to think about it mostly. They were in a pen on concrete and went poop (diarrhea) and walked in it. The breeder than moved them to another spot on the concrete when we were talking to the other person (his wife). They were NOT healthy pups...

Animal Planet had a special on the investigation into Petland and the puppymills they bought puppies from. It was on a few months ago. I would certainly suggest that anyone you're speaking with who is still even considering buying from a pet store see if they can find and watch this. It's stomach turning. My daughter couldn't watch the whole thing with me.

The problem to me is not the pet stores as the fact that people do buy puppies from them. If there was not a market the stores would not exist(and do very well often). And to me the market exists because breeders make it so hard for the average family to get a dog. And while I am playing devils advocate abit I think I have some valid points.

seriously, many here KNOW what they want and what they want to do with it and intend to DO something with it that requires a 'higher' level dog. BUT the average pet owner isn't on here and they just want a dog. They might even know a breed or feel that they want. And they want a puppy often. SO they look in the paper and find BYBs with crappy puppys that have no guarantee and frankly often are poorer reps for the breed than a PS / PM puppy. ....

Finding a reputable breeder is HARD ....face it, you go to shows or events, you find the type/ breed / dog you want and then you hunt down a breeder. This takes months, even years. My last border collie (who is 11 now) took us all over NY and PA to any show or trial we could find. We talked to loads of people, we asked where they got their dog etc etc. Finally found a short list and many would not sell to a family with kids under 12. Mind you I used to breed BCs and my kids grew up with dogs and were excellent with them. Finally found a breeder who would sell to us. He has some possible upcoming breedings. Breedings, not litters due.....months of waiting and several "all spoken for" litters later and two years after we started we got our puppy. Not something many people would do.

If they find a "reputable" breeder it may be hours or states away and if they bother to go that distance they find that person (rightly so ) wants them to jump through hoops and sign a contract and promise XXXX stuff. People don't like this and so when they get to the pet store and can lay down money and take a puppy home right then, without having a fenced yard or promise to name it with a certain theme or many of the somewhat ridiculous stuff I have seen some breeders ask for I really do understand why they buy from the pet store.

And you have all had horror stories of puppies from pet stores. But I am betting two things...there are just as many horror stories about BYB or less than reputable private breeders and likewise PS sell thousands of puppies. Heck the one here local sells an astounding number(the owner is even amazed at times- she has become a friend over the years of talking and helping her rehome her unsellable, free puppys....ones with hernias, heart murmurs..heck, she had a hermaphrodite bichon that the local breeder asked her to place). The number that are sickly or end tragically is a small fraction of those sales. And this is a business...so she really is trying to make money, not lose it. And she makes enough to take several vacations, buy a house and go back to school... AND, to stay in business the owner replaces those puppies and or pays the bills on them.

And again, she gets her puppies generally from two sources...the amish PMs up the lake and local BYBs or ooops litters. 90% of the trouble (health and temperament wise) comes from the private puppies. Though this is a fluke overall in the country I am sure. And I understand that she is a bit of an anomaly. But her one main source in the amish is a family who buys in papered purebred dogs from fairly decent lines (gee, I wonder who is selling them those dogs??) and then they breed those dogs and rarely go on with a second or third generation. He goes and buys new breeding stock. His "barn" is a large, spacious, immaculate kennel..indoor outdoor runs and all. If you walked in you would not think eeeew puppy mill.

I am certainly not defending PS selling. The local girl and I are friends 'cause I don't condemn her for her business. (and I sell her rodents and the odd reptile) The fact is the general public don't really care if they get a perfect example of a breed. Heck, 2/3 of sales over the last year have been mixes and or 'designer' dogs. It sounds so simple that PSs and PMs are evil but it is not so black and white many times.
People just want a dog. And apparently my mom was right....many people have more money than sense.

"And you have all had horror stories of puppies from pet stores. But I am betting two things...there are just as many horror stories about BYB or less than reputable private breeders and likewise PS sell thousands of puppies."


No one is saying otherwise.

 Quote: elizabeth anderson

pups had hernias and didn't have the sense not to step in their diarrhea!

do you mean that "dirty dog" syndrome? That's not really a sign of lack of intelligence but it's odd, I do notice pet store or BYB puppies have that problem....the "rottie" my neighbor has routinely poops then lays in it. By comparison, my dog stepped in dog poop once (not his own) and FREAKED (I though he'd broken a leg). Even the time he was sick and got diarreah all over his crate I found him standing on the 4X4 inch area where there was no feces.

I think that's a poor management thing, or puppies to young to know better.....

 Quote:

my dog stepped in dog poop once (not his own) and FREAKED

Hehe...my dog has done this too. He walked on three legs until I cleaned his foot. He looked thoroughly disgusted.

In my experience, puppies that are raised in clean environments tend to be clean themselves. Puppies raised in filth don't really know any better and tend to be dirty. It seems harder to housebreak these guys because they don't naturally want to be away from the icky stuff like well-cared-for puppies do.

 Quote: Kristel Smart

 Quote:

my dog stepped in dog poop once (not his own) and FREAKED

Hehe...my dog has done this too. He walked on three legs until I cleaned his foot. He looked thoroughly disgusted.

In my experience, puppies that are raised in clean environments tend to be clean themselves. Puppies raised in filth don't really know any better and tend to be dirty. It seems harder to housebreak these guys because they don't naturally want to be away from the icky stuff like well-cared-for puppies do.

I think that is exactly right. I have to laugh when I see Chula make a wide circle around her own poop in the back yard, and the look of revulsion on her face when she encounters another dog's poop on walks. (now cat poop, that's a different story )

LOL, Lynne. I know this look well. I have to stop training if a dog poops during a class as Ripley refuses to go near that part of the ring for the rest of the night.

 Quote:

I think that is exactly right. I have to laugh when I see Chula make a wide circle around her own poop in the back yard, and the look of revulsion on her face when she encounters another dog's poop on walks. (now cat poop, that's a different story )

Same here! A stray cat keeps leaping over our fence to poop in our yard, and Kaia will find the little pile and she will eat it before I can get to her!
I pick up poop immediately and there is a complete repulsion to other dog piles. ?? What gives with the cat scat?

heh, my dog is afraid of cat poop.....

When he was about 6 months old he sniffed in my housemate's cat's box and in diving for him to pull him out I accidently knocked an entire desk, the contents of a dresser, and a potted plant on his head....I swear whenever he smells cat poop he looks around like he expects flying funiture to take him out XD

I can't say I've done much to discourage this reaction lol....he'll skirt around cat poop and avoids the litter box like it's going to jump up and eat him.....he'll step over and around dog poop but he doesn't walk in a big circle around it like he does the cat stuff....