I hadn't thought of the head collar causing her head to twist and that would very much be a worry so we'll ditch that idea. do you think working with her nylon collar and harness is good?

I try to catch her just as she becomes reactive, hackles up and say NO!, then change direction if possible, if she lunges or braces against me then I repeat the NO!, and try to move away (in the opposite direction). I think I may have inadvertently been reinforcing her behavior by struggling to get her turned it may have seemed to her like I was saying "lets get 'em!". When she is in that state of mind she seems to have tunnel vision and obviously this is the area where I've failed her, by not establishing its "my rules not her rules".

The little monster does want to please, so I think I probably should have asked for advice sooner.

I'm so excited about putting all this info into play and seeing her improve. Its not even so much that I want her to have dog friends more that I want us to be able to pass another dog without it looking as if she is on the attack. You and Connie are right that it doesn't really matter what this behavior is labeled as, as long as it gets under control, but I definitely understand her reasoning more.

 Quote: Jodi Moen

....I'm so excited about putting all this info into play and seeing her improve. Its not even so much that I want her to have dog friends more that I want us to be able to pass another dog without it looking as if she is on the attack.

It IS exciting. And yes, that is exactly what I wanted, too.

And again, this kind of work has no downside. Increasing the dog's perception of you as the decider of interactions, the pack's protection and leader, and the source of far more interesting stuff than strange dogs -- not to mention bulletproofing the dog's focus and basic ob -- how can this not be worth the work?

Viewing the reactivity as simply a highest-level distraction makes it all so clear. Like all high-level distraction, it's proofed against in the same gradual, calm, controlled manner.

 Quote: dana martin

After the obedience he had a "very reputable" trainer offer to help with this issue. Evidently her idea was to provoke the dog into an agressive state (by staring at it from what he said) while in his home (where he has no problem) and then correct the dog. I believe, fortunately, that she couldn't ilicit this behavior from the dog and then gave up.

Dana, You have just provided a perfect example of why I cautioned the OP about day care - even with "professionals" who work with aggressive dogs. Thank you.

Point your friend to Leerburg and these threads. Now back to the original post...

 Quote: barbara schuler

 Quote: dana martin

After the obedience he had a "very reputable" trainer offer to help with this issue. Evidently her idea was to provoke the dog into an agressive state (by staring at it from what he said) while in his home (where he has no problem) and then correct the dog. I believe, fortunately, that she couldn't ilicit this behavior from the dog and then gave up.

Dana, You have just provided a perfect example of why I cautioned the OP about day care - even with "professionals" who work with aggressive dogs. Thank you.

Point your friend to Leerburg and these threads. Now back to the original post...

I'm "gently" suggesting to him that this is a behavior that CAN be addressed by the right professional. When he becomes a little more receptive I'll suggest he look at this website.

I really would hate to see something happen and have his dog tagged as a "dangerous" dog.

I thought about getting him one of the books or videos, but I don't know if it would be a good idea to have him try and correct this behavior by himself. He really needs a professional.

Thanks for letting know that this was not a good situation. I really thought it was a bizarre way to try and correct this behavior, especially after reading this thread.

 Quote: Jodi Moen

do you think working with her nylon collar and harness is good?

I think her nylon collar is just fine. Not sure what you’re using the harness for at this time. The only time my dogs are donned with harnesses is for tracking and pulling. Again, not much experience with the added gear in this type of training.

 Quote: Jodi Moen

I try to catch her just as she becomes reactive, hackles up and say NO!, then change direction if possible, if she lunges or braces against me then I repeat the NO!, and try to move away (in the opposite direction).

If she’s at this stage, you’ve gone way too far into her reaction zone. The raised hackles are saying excitement to me. In the beginning, as has been mentioned, it’s really important that you work with her outside of this zone. Because you now know her reactions and the distance at which this start it’s your job to be diligent and maintain the non-reactive distance.

Again, putting her in these situations is not going to help her overcome this behavior, in fact, will only intensify and reinforce the habit she’s gotten into. And I totally understand that the unexpected happens, so this is why YOU need to choose your training areas carefully. It may mean a bit of a drive to more isolated areas at first, but she needs to be prevented from performing this behavior by not putting her in these situations.

 Quote: Jodi Moen

The little monster does want to please, so I think I probably should have asked for advice sooner.

They’re dogs, they do want to please. I think this is why we love them so much. It’s just a matter of establishing that working relationship where they know what truly pleases us. It’s so easy to give them the wrong impression because we don’t speak the same language. But like learning any new language, small, successful steps will get you speaking fluently in no time, one word at a time.

And it does take time; this isn’t going to happen overnight. You can expect to devote weeks, months and with some dogs even a few years, before you get the solid behavior you’re looking for.

Allowing her to perform the inappropriate behavior will set you back each time. Consistency in your methods and expectations with provide the quickest success.

And it’s truly amazing to me, the wealth of information that a group of dedicated dog owners can provide. It’s never too late to ask for advice or just throw your situation out there and see what comes back. Should you have any questions along the way, please post them before the frustration sets in. There’s folks here to support you every step of the way.

I think you’re off to a great start. Have fun with your wonderful girl!!

I was just out in the yard with the dogs. A parade of two people and their three dogs went by, and on their way by, they actually had the nerve to LOOK THROUGH THE FENCE INTO THIS YARD with their evil stranger-dogs!

I didn't see them coming, to engage my used-to-be-terribly-reactive dog in something else, but he just glanced at them. No reaction. Nada.

He is simply no longer in the habit of reacting to passing dogs. Yes, it took about 18 months. But this, this is a new height for him. (They were right near "his" gate!)

That reactivity becomes more of a dim memory every day.

People coming up into your yard to look through the fence??? Good grief - how ruuude. Congrats on the dog however! It is such a good feeling to see things come together and WORK, isn't it?

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

It is such a good feeling to see things come together and WORK, isn't it?

Yes it is. He'd have fence-fought those dogs the whole length of the fence once, his front feet off the ground, and he'd have tried to get under the gate at them. The people would have sped up in alarm and dragged their dogs away. I'd have been angry and embarrassed.

I guess I am a little slow on the uptake, because now I understand. Its ok to walk but if you see a dog avoid her getting close enough to react.
Geez, I thinking working nights has lowered my IQ, because for some reason I wasn't getting that part of it. I can definitely turn before she becomes reactive.
On a good note I've been working with her on the marker training and when she was interested in a car was able to get her to focus on me and sit and down! It was so awesome to see her watch me and what I was asking for.