I think Josh had the best post yet. If you can't get control over this dog then why keep it? That's really what I was saying. If I couldn't establish top dog position with a muzzle and a can of whoop ass,(before a new member who dosen't know me has a heart attack, I would NEVER practice or advocate physical violence against a dog! ) I wouldn't bother. This dog is dangerous and is bound to bite a kid. out of respect for Lou's knowlege I will say that it certainly sounds like the ecollar is something worth giving a shot. Other than that, for me...forget it. I guess some of you are more patient, better people than me, because I just can't be bothered after a certain point. I'm with Josh on this one.

Hey everybody,

 Quote:

the owner today told me the mother is good family dog, but the father was or is a fighterdog, those poor dog has a stupid owner and he made a fightring with his dog, and now everybody have a problem with his daugtherey everybody,

Butch: This is from the trainer, no wonder this female is a problem. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Josh wrote:If the dog can not be managed, why keep it? Wasting time and effort on a dog who wants to kill the world has NO place in reality.

Butch: That is the answer to this dogs troubles, Who do you let have this dog, NOBODY!

Butch: If Lou were to work with this dog then maybe a behavior change would be seen. Only a trainer with extensive experience dealing with this type of actions could succed.

The sad part of this dogs troubles is that they will most likely get much worse. Proberley end up back with the sire(remember the fighting dog) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'll add my inexpert reply to this thread and vote with Josh And Chuck. I think that if the dogs displays such extreme behaviour at such a young age that the chance of reforming her into any type of good dog is pretty slim. Maybe with expert handling at all times under very controlled circumstances she could be made to mind, but that does not sound like her home situation. Rehome her and somebody else gets the problem. I don't think all dogs can be reformed and some just have the genetics for extreme aggression and most people do not have the experience to deal with any kind of dog aggression let alone something this severe. I think a dog like this is of unsound mind and would be better off being euthanized.

Lou there is no attitude, just a fact. You did not specify the brand collar, and simply dismissed the point of the e-collar possiably causing an attack, as a "myth". This was not a myth. We agree on this now. I am glad it has been cleared-up. No hard feelings.
I still feel that this dog should be disposed of, as it is an accident waiting to happen; just like a drunk with a car, the luck will run out.

I am sorry I did not read your whole post, as it was long and detailed.
I will tell you that with my "attitude", I feel this dog is an accident waiting to happen.
If you feel the electric could fix him, more power to you. If you think that you could talk these people through the issue's that this dog is having over the phone, you are just fooling yourself and everyone else, or you are truley the greatest dog trainer of our time. There is no way, giving the information, that is here, and the situation that this dog is in, that without being there, this dog could be fixed or changed, by simply purchasing an e-collar and a few telephone converstation. These people are in over thier head. It is trainers, with your "attitude" that gets children bit or killed by a dog. Common-sense would dictate that why take the chance with a dog like this. If you feel that without seeing this dog, an e-collar and some instruction over the phone, that this mess will more then likley end up in a postitave way.........LOL! I don't know who you think your fooling, but I was not born yesterday.
The e-collar is great and I use them, but you simply come on as it is a cure-all which simply is not so.

Why is it I miss these threads till the end. I could have had fun with this one... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Whew, I just read the whole thread. I see a lot of different theories on here. The one thing that sticks out to me though, is everyone is correcting the SYMPTOM. Why not fix the cause.

Can you elaborate, Todd?

Yeah Todd, Elaborate... I am house/dog sitting and bored to tears.

I was wondering if anyone would 'BITE' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

There seems to be a couple of issues to me.

1) Question of dominance
2) Question of Confidence
3) Running in a pack
4) Owners who don't have a @#@#$ clue

It seems to me the dog in question has been getting mixed messages. I believe the dog has questionable genetics. In regards that it doesn;t have the genetic make up to be alpha. It seems the owners are giving it cues that it should be alpha. Creating a paradox/conflict.

Also, the owners are giving suggestions to the dog acting this way. When someone approaches the owner, wheather or not they intend to go to the dog, is there any chance the owners body chemistry and breathing... doesn't change? They are cueing the dog. Even grabbing the leash with two hands tells the dog something. I mean our dogs no when we are happy they know when we are sad, they no when weve been good or not so be good for goodness sakes...OOPS got going there.

They know when we are nervous.

The dogs confidence needs to be raised. It can;t handle something unknown coming towards it so it trys to scare it off. If it doesn't work then its bluff is called and it has to bite. Not because it is aggressive, just no other choice.

I don't believe an e-collar is the answer(yes I use them). I don't believe a prong is the answer(yes I use them(I won't mention anything about sharpening...lol)).

This is a dog that must be removed from the situation. It does not need euthanized. Out of a pack. Into a crate. Decisions are gone for a while. The big bad world wont hurt you.

The dog needs off the bed, more time in a crate. When it is out of the crate it should drag its leash around that way you dont have to chase it. The owner should mix the food up with their hands to let the dog know they had it first.