Connie has a good point. There must be somewhere. Even if its the parking lot of a strip mall, walmart or a grocery store.

All that matters is that he can see people and learn to be more comfortable around them and in new places.

 Quote: Theresa Rutherford

Mara, that is something I want to do, but I am having a hard time trying to come up with jobs for him. Any suggestions - I have a hard time thinking up things. I have had friends ask about jobs for him, but they haven't suggested things for him either.

With 7 kids and the acerage that you have, I'd probably try something like tracking. Here is a site to get you started http://www.softcom.net/users/aprilr/tracking_with_your_berner.htm (yup, it say bernese mountain dog, but it works the same for all breeds!)

Learn the basics, teach Rocky the basics, then teach the kids how to lay a track, send one out to lay a track and take Rocky out afterwards to work it.

 Quote: Lauren Jeffery

Connie has a good point. There must be somewhere. Even if its the parking lot of a strip mall, walmart or a grocery store.

All that matters is that he can see people and learn to be more comfortable around them and in new places.

And it has to be outside his trigger area. That is, you don't start within the range where he is stressed and reactive.

Put a backpack on him and let him carry things for you. That's a job that would make him handy around the farm and require that he stay near you.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Ditto, Mara. I would like to read about his daily training regimen. I especially would like to hear about proofing for venue and distraction, and whether markers are used.

Can you explain - proofing for venue and distraction???

I used Ed Frawley's Basic Obed Video - I use "yes" as my marker and treats for re-enforcement. Just today I taught him to stay while I walk out of sight. It only took about 5 minutes before he realized that I wanted him to not come looking for me. So I will work on this behavior for the week. Adding distractions as he becomes better at this.

As for the daily training regimen - I spend time working with him many times a day. Anytime I have to go outside for any reason I play with him and work with him for a few minutes. We work on something new each week. Reviewing all other commands just for the fun of it. When the donkey happens to not see us I work with him among the cattle with all his commands, just as re-enforcement.

Aaron - the reason I used the e-collar during the donkey incidence was for not coming - that was a month ago. He was just learning the e-collar and I was getting no response to verbal commands and for his safety since she was kicking him I was trying to distract him with a shock so I could get to him - so she wouldn't kill him.

Connie - like I mentioned we live a long way from anywhere...my children are home schooled. I mentioned that there is a park that I can take him to about once a week that has a wooded trail I can take him through - he can still see the children playing in the park and others walking on the main path. When I take him with me to go shopping I can walk him in the parking lot for a few minutes just for the distractions. The nearest PetSmart is about 50 miles away and we seldom go in that direction.

What could I do when someone unfamiliar comes to visit us? Not an everyday occurrence, but occasionally someone will come over. A friend who loves GSD's asked me to bring him out so she could see him - she is in her 50's and said she was not scared of him at all - I told her to keep her hands in her pockets and just let him sniff her until he was satisfied. (I brought him out on leash). She put her hands in her pockets, but when he sniffed a few seconds she instinctively pulled her hands out and tried to pet him and he snapped at her. (I know this probably was not the right thing to do and I don't need to be reprimanded for it if it wasn't, but I wanted to see what he would do since we were leaving for FL the next day) After he was calm I gave her a treat to throw to him. He ate it so I gave her another one and she threw that to him - he ate it and then was fine with her touching him. I don't want him to view people as friends when they have food, but my dad did the same thing to him when they came up for a visit a few months previous (without my knowledge). Rocky kept snapping at my father so he poured out some of his soda and when Rocky drank it he had no problem with my father after that.

 Quote: theresa rutherford

Can you explain - proofing for venue and distraction???

I'm on my way to the training field, but can answer this part now:

After you have a command foolproof in one place, you move to various venues. You might move from room to room inside, then to the driveway, then to the barn, then in the middle of a long walk, then somewhere else after driving there, etc.

That's venue-proofing.

Distraction-proofing is like what you described with kids walking by. You could gradually move it up to other activities happening nearby. The highest level for many dogs is having another dog in sight (which is why I asked about a dog park with a chainlink fence). Distraction-proofing also includes adding distance (very slowly) so that eventually the dog sits instantly even if you say it from 40 feet away.

I don't introduce venue changes, distractions, or distance at the same time, and I tend to do all these (and duration) very slowly. I like really solid groundwork and complete lack of confusion.

This: ".... the reason I used the e-collar during the donkey incidence was for not coming. .... I was getting no response to verbal commands..." is not compatible with this: " He is 100% on recall and ALL his basic obedience commands."

This is what I mean by not glamming up what he does and has. It's much more productive to fix it. (Again, lots of people do it! It almost always turns out that yes, he's great with his understanding and compliance in this spot, with this tone of voice, with no distraction.)



We need to work out some plans for desensitizing (or never having him unmuzzled around strangers or dogs for the rest of his life). Others will help; just reminding you that weekends are training times to many and the board responses slow down.

Others will help; just reminding you that weekends are training times to many and the board responses slow down. end quote.

Not to mention that some of us are still working in our minds on what may have come about during this weekend training.

Okay, so how do you teach distance training? What we have been doing is that my husband will hold the leash and I give a command from about 10 feet away.

I guess then that I answered the proofing for venue and distraction in my last post.

It seems that Rocky has given you some priceless information: if people come to close he is going to use his mouth to get them to back off. When thinking about socializing, don't confuse that with 'friendly'. A well socialized dog is not necessarily friendly, and it sounds like Rocky might fall into that group. Your job, as his handler, is to ensure no animal, human or otherwise, gets so close to Rocky that his equilibrium is upset. Thus, you must become better conditioned to read his signs of distress (the precursors to the snap or lunge or bark) and have strategies in place to ensure his comfort is maintained. The more you do this, more more he will trust that you can and will protect him, not vice versa.

Please remove the e-collar for now. You are going to have your hands full with working on ensuring Rocky no longer has an opportunity to lunge or snap because you are going to keep him safe. Your use of the e-collar is not keeping him safe, it is putting him at risk of becoming more reactive.

It sounds like you are working hard with your dog, and want the best for him. I think one of the problems I am having is the contradictions (ie. 100% recall, OB vs. lunging, barking and snapping behaviour).

Jethro has 100% recall when I call him for his dinner, he has about 75% recall when he sees his friend Bandit out on a walk, he as about 50% recall when he is out on a field and there are other dogs at play, and he has 0% recall when he is over-excited and in a full on reaction (although this is inching up to a Sit/Bark instead of Lunge/Bark). It is pretty hard to make a claim of 100% of anything with an adolescent dog, because they are still going through growth stages and developmental stages that change their capacity to respond in a reliable way to anything.

I would be careful with Rocky around the kids, if you have evidence that he is snapping. He is already showing you that he is not Happy, he is anxious and reactive. Happiness is a human emotion that is not a continuous state of consciousness. It is even less so for your dog.

I know it is hard to have your hard-won dog handling criticized, but if you can weather the hard knocks you are going to be rewarded with a balanced, confident, trustworthy pet.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

It seems that Rocky has given you some priceless information: if people come to close he is going to use his mouth to get them to back off.

Very true. I have learned a lot about him and my responsibility toward him. I do know the breeder we got him from very well - he breeds only the West German GSD's and told us that Rocky's father was an extremely "mouthy" dog. He also told us that Rocky will probably be the same way since most of this father's pups are mouthy. Mouthy in the sense that he uses his mouth for EVERYTHING. More so than an ordinary dog. He is very easily stimulated by his mouth and everything is explored in its entirety with his mouth...

 Quote: jenny arntzen

When thinking about socializing, don't confuse that with 'friendly'

.

I don't...I just don't want him to go nuts when any one approaches him or another dog comes up.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

It sounds like you are working hard with your dog, and want the best for him. I think one of the problems I am having is the contradictions (ie. 100% recall, OB vs. lunging, barking and snapping behaviour).

First, thank you for your positive words. I now understand what you mean by the "contradictions." He is 100% on leash in the yard and around our children and farm animals, he is about 90% on-leash out of the yard with the donkey around and he is 0% when he is in hot-pursuit of the donkey.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

I would be careful with Rocky around the kids, if you have evidence that he is snapping

He is perfectly fine around our children, but I keep him in his kennel when I can't supervise the younger children.