I have to say Claudia does look beyond competent -let us know what happens when you reach out to her Melissa -several of us here are concerned about this dog -he's telegraphing big time -and want to see you get stable and safe. I'd have to ask Betty but it looks like Claudia may even have trained that JRT "Mr. Murphy" (of the YouTube PPD trial fame) -it that's true, well, enough said on her training abilities...

Yep, Mr, Murphy was hers.

For those of you that don't know I think Claudia was 17 when she competed in the BSP.

Bandit van Gogh was also from her second litter.

Claudia would be very easy for me to dislike, she is younger, prettier, more talented...... AND HER DECOY IS HER HUSBAND! Life is just so unfair at times. ROFL

If anyone ever gets a chance to attend one of her seminars, go for it. Even if you don't do protection or tracking with your dog it is well worth it just for the ob portion.

The fearful dog I saw her work with was a pet obtained from rescue.

 Quote: melissapietrocol

 Quote: bob scott

One HUGE downside to working with a dog that is genetically messed up is that, no matter how well you can "train" the dog to respond correctly, stress will always bring out the dog's natural behavior, good or bad!

I am having a hard time believing this bad gene theory. How do you know an animal has bad genes? How do we know the dog's natural behavior?

Melissa, at this point you have to work with what you have and what you know. You know that the dog is fearful of and aggressive with other people and animals.

A dog with strong nerves (better genetics) might not react so fearfully and aggressively as this dog does, given the same set of circumstances.

If you have any chance of saving this dog and averting danger to yourself and others, call Claudia Romard. If she's not close enough for you to meet with, perhaps she can recommend someone in your area.

In the meantime, if you are taking the dog out in public get the dog accustomed to a muzzle and use it every time you are out. If you have people in your house, crate the dog first and don't attempt to introduce the dog to anybody. Keep the crate in an area where the dog doesn't get stressed out, or get two crates and place one in an area where the dog doesn't see any guests.

Keep us posted...

I would like to retract my title "Need Strong Correction" What I really need is a strong ME.

 Quote: hilarie coby

I have to say Claudia does look beyond competent -let us know what happens when you reach out to her Melissa -several of us here are concerned about this dog -he's telegraphing big time -and want to see you get stable and safe. I'd have to ask Betty but it looks like Claudia may even have trained that JRT "Mr. Murphy" (of the YouTube PPD trial fame) -it that's true, well, enough said on her training abilities...

What do you mean by telegraphing?

...sorry -giving clear signals of his mind set and inclinations..

 Quote: melissapietrocol

 Quote: bob scott

One HUGE downside to working with a dog that is genetically messed up is that, no matter how well you can "train" the dog to respond correctly, stress will always bring out the dog's natural behavior, good or bad!

I am having a hard time believing this bad gene theory. How do you know an animal has bad genes? How do we know the dog's natural behavior?

Unless you've seen the parents and the pup from day one it's often a guess.
When you see a litter of pups that spooks at the slightest sound or movement it's a very good bet the litter is crap. I wont even pic a good pup out of a litter if I see one that's spooky. Genetics!
Different levels for different levels of nerve obviously but solid nerved pups are a HUGE part of my selection processes. I wont go any further if I see it in ANY pup in a litter
One of my pet peeves is folks that have a pound dog or rescue dog with weak nerves and blame it on being mistreated/abused as a pup. Maybe yes, probably no!
If the dog had good nerves from the start it should be able to recover from poor training or handling. Weak nerved from the start and you have a crapper for life unless kept in very controlled situations.
JMO of course!

The argument of "nature vs. nurture" in how an animals "personality" turns out is for me over, it is hardwired in my opinion. Raising cattle since l981 has convinced me that personality is 100% inherited. You can screw up, by negative experiences, a nice gentle temperament -- but you can't reliably "fix"a reactive, wild temperament by training. Countless times I have retained fancy babies from difficult dams because their conformation and pedigree are valuable-- despite halter breaking, years of gentle handling and when some stress occurs, eg. separation from the herd, calving, chute work, a need for doctoring etc. the calf reverts to its natural mind set of " I know in my heart humans are not to be trusted" and the situation becomes dangerous, eg. the cow wants to charge, jump the fence, climb a wall. In a pinch, cattle with this genetic mind set see the farmer as the SOURCE of the problem and not "help" for what ever trouble they are experiencing. On some level it's stupidity, an inability to learn new ways to "go with the flow". They think, "I'm in trouble and now I'm vulnerable, I need to protect myself", not "maybe she will help me".
Their fear completely blocks their ability to learn.
I don't know so much about dogs, and a dog has a much "bigger" mind, perhaps more room for modeling. But I suspect if you have a dog bred to be a ferocious monster guard dog or a fighter it's going to be tough.

 Quote: melissapietrocol

 Quote: bob scott

One HUGE downside to working with a dog that is genetically messed up is that, no matter how well you can "train" the dog to respond correctly, stress will always bring out the dog's natural behavior, good or bad!

I am having a hard time believing this bad gene theory. How do you know an animal has bad genes? How do we know the dog's natural behavior?

There are dogs with bad nerves(genetic) and dogs that are just not "right"(more random) IMO.

I've worked with at least a few hundred dogs between working in a doggy daycare/kennel and volunteering at shelters and rescues. I've met less than 10 dogs that I consider to have the canine equivalent of a mental illness. I don't label a dog as "just not wired right" easily. Dogs with less than stable nerves are a dime a dozen. Dogs that genuinely have a few screws loose are much less common.

You will see the difference when you train them or see their reactions to situations. It won't be behaviorally "correct". Most people say the dog "just suddenly snapped" when really they clearly indicated that they were uncomfortable. Once you know dog behavior to the point that a shift in posture or a certain look tells you the dogs intentions as clearly as if they were talking you will eventually meet a dog who just doesn't make sense. These are the dogs that I mean are just not wired right. These dogs will not "get better" no matter how much training you do. A sound behavioral approach will seem to have no or very little effect. Management can make thier lives easier but if it's too severe being put to sleep may be the only peace they ever have.

A good trainer may be able to determine by this dogs reactions that he is one of the one's who will never really be able to be "fixed". They aren't as common as the dogs that will respond to training but they are out there.

Has anyone put a dog down for aggression? If so, why?