Vancamp
What I'm saying is if you have Law enforcement back ground (Ex-Police/Deputy sheriff, reserve Deputy sheriff or Police or whatever) in a small rurual area and you have a tested or trained working dog that can TrackAir scenttrail and detain a suspect they will ask for your assistance. Every town or city does not have a large Police/Sheriff department some are 7 men, deep everybody and everything else is reserve or volunteer like some fire departments how double as reserve Police officers.

A couple trained dog is an area like this would be invaluable, a small department could never afford them or the man power.

I think its stupid to fight a fire that seems unstoppable, or try to save a person from a burning vehicle or try to stop a murder that armed and dangerous. But somebody gotta do it, I pray for the saftey and the fact that these type men and women exist and you should to. These public servants should be called heroes not pigs.
Stepping off my soap box.

Robert--

I think Goodogu means that people who have been in law enforcement (retired) or people who are in other areas of LE may want to consider learning to use K-9s to assist in manhunts... especially if they are already experienced dog handlers. I'd be willing to bet too that English is not Goodogu's native language but he (she?) is trying hard, which is what matters.

Just think back to The Right Stuff : "What Gus is sayin' is--"

Goodogu: Slap me if I'm wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Pete

Gooddogu,

I've been on tracks or searches for, badguys, lost guys, lost kids, alzheimers patients, tornado victims, mines. tunnels, tripwires and a six-pack of Bud. The key to any successful operation is training. If something surprises you in the real world, then you aren't training correctly. Contrary to popular belief, a PSD, well at least the ones we use, do not get a bite at the end of every track, although we do let the bloodhound slime the person we get, he enjoys that so much, but the PSD's bite when commanded. Training is the key to any successful operation. Proper training covers any eventuality.

DFrost

Very well put Mr. Frost. Realistic training, not scripted, geared for the jurisdiction one serves, w/i approved departmental guidelines usually makes for a full training session IMHO. I feel that if one does not train one should not complain. Some handlers follow the norm with little realism. I used tell handlers that if you are the 3rd,4th,5th etc., dog or handler in a line that the scenery never changes. Mr Frost is correct. It IMHO is too late to train enroute to a mission. B2B and always be worthy of your dog! Dr. L.

I see it as twofold. Yes, train like it's for real. Realistic conditions, terrain, weather, time of day, distractions, etc. At the same time, training is the only time where you have any control over how the problem is set up, so that you can learn how to read your dog. I've seen some situations arise in training that I would hate to have to deal with for the first time on a real mission. At least in training, knowing where the subject/article/cadaver scent/what have you is located, how long it's been there, whether it's been moved, what the wind has been doing, etc., gives you an upper hand in learning. You do not have any of those luxuries in the real deal, and some situations can really throw you off if you've never encountered them before.

L Swanson,

I understand what you are saying, however, if you know where the targets are located, you still have not found out how YOU and the dog will react to a new situation. Knowing where a track goes or where a drug, explosive, cadaver material or even a bad guy is hidden during proficiency training (i'm not talking about new dogs) is a practice that does not allow the full development of a dog team. The possibility of developing bad habits and a false sense of security, that the dog is performing properly, far outweighs any possible benefits. It certainly makes the training day easier, but I question whether there is any real growth. You will never know how good your dog is, till you find out what he can NOT do. The only time I permit a handler to know any specifics about a training problem is if we are trying to teach a new task, or we are conducting extinction training on an unwanted behavior.

DFrost

Very true. That's why we work blind problems; the more advanced dog/handler teams do this more frequently than I. We're working on extinguishing a behavior on the track that I inadvertently created (extreme fringing), so right now, I always know the exact location of the track. We've agreed as a team, that before my dog and I get to advance, we "test" on a blind track, so we know if we're ready. When we get close to certification level, we'll be working a lot of blind tracks, I would imagine.

DFrost & L Swanson
I'm confused I think, but then I do confuse easily.

I don't think you are confused, you are just way ahead of me in experince and ideas. I am just starting out. I'm months, no probably years from being deployed or being useful. I'm just having fun training and looking for the pitfalls.

Thanks to you guys I'm getting a big picture of how things really are and could be. Like dogs with bite training should not be used off lease to find mentally disorintated victims, it could be done only on lease.

Sorry about confusing and leaving some so they didn't understand and others to think me wanting to be used in Manhunt deployment was stupid.

VanCamp
I was a police officer (small force of 21 officers, 7 full time), my son is a police Officer and most of my friend/assoicates are envolved in Law enforcement in some way.

Doc You are deep in thought, I enjoyed reading your comments, I can tell you tried to break it down so the common person could understand what you meant, but do you have a 5th gear. No you communicate well, I printed it out and read it over again, along with Dfrost experiences.

Dfrost, Doc, LSwanston or whoever. I have a question, if I train 2-3 times a week and the dogs has the drive needed, etc... Can you give me a time spand when I can start thinking about getting tested. And what is the procedure for such a test. I understand that at some of the S&R seminars, dog teams tested and rated. So I am asking, when do you know you are ready to test?

Pete this is my native language (is that bad), I'm just not trying to win a grammer contest. I'm typing as fast and relax as I can, in between coding serious programs and without my spell/grammer checker or debugger.
Thanks for clearing up, what I thought I was writing.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Originally posted by Goodogu:

Dfrost, Doc, LSwanston or whoever. I have a question, if I train 2-3 times a week and the dogs has the drive needed, etc... Can you give me a time spand when I can start thinking about getting tested. And what is the procedure for such a test. I understand that at some of the S&R seminars, dog teams tested and rated. So I am asking, when do you know you are ready to test?
It depends on a lot of things, from the abilities of the dog/handler team, to what the certification standards are. I can't speak for everyone, but in my area, the dog team is under the umbrella of the Sheriff's office. To become a certified dog/handler team is a three step process.

First, the volunteer must submit an application to the Sheriff's office, including a criminal background check, which is reviewed and either accepted or declined.

Second, the handler must pass a state certification test in SAR, which consists training in several areas of SAR, from navigation, to mantracking, to helicopter safety, etc., and of a written exam and a compass course; they must be certified in First Aid/CPR (our state has its own set of requirements for SAR; a SAR volunteer who has NASAR or any other certification must still pass our state's testing requirement.). Retired law enforcement are not exempt from this process.

Third, the dog/handler team must pass a certification test in which a blind problem is set up, and the dog/handler team has a specific amount of time in which to make the find. The handler is tested on several things, not just making the find, but also their ability to read their dog, and work through problems such as scent pools, and they must be able to describe certain aspects of scent theory to the test administrator's satisfaction.

In addition, there are different levels of participation within the dog team itself, that require different skill levels to attain.

This certification process can take from one to two years, if everything goes well. I think it'll end up taking us a bit longer, because my dog had to take a 6 month break from training due to his surgery. Hopefully, it won't be a huge delay, as I think he and I will get back to our previous skill level pretty quickly.

For me personally, I'll know when I'm ready to test, because my TEAM will agree that my dog and I are ready.

L. Swanston,

Rather than put a time limit on it, define the objective you want to obtain, train to that objective, when the dog meets the objective it's time to test. Each task you do should can be broken down into steps, when the steps are completed, that task should be learned. For example, if I'm training a drug dog, I know the dog is ready to progress to the next level, when the dog can perform, 20 unassisted positive responses, that is the dog searches for, locates, goes to source, and responds, without the handler knowing where the targets are. when the dog is at that point it's time to move on. AS all the steps come together the dog is finished and ready for certification. In essence, it's the dogs ability to complete each task, not the amount of time it takes. Sure, after training 1,000 plus drug dogs, I have a good idea of how long it should take, but each dog is still measured independantly. I guess what I'm saying as concerned about "time" but more concerned about how the dog performs each step.

DFrost