If you are lucky, Bob Scott will pop on here. Bob took his GSD Thunder all the way to SchH 3 with marker training (and no corrections!) and in fact has a disgusting number of titles and awards in a ridiculous number of venues. LOL

Would love to hear from all who are "in the know". I appreciate all input. Would absolutely adore hearing from more Doberman trainers. The difference between training dobes and GSD's is simply that GSD's are typically herding type dogs where Dobes use prey. GSD's typically are more pack driven where Dobes were bred from breeds that work independently. This is not to say that all DOBES and GSD's are like this but it is the big difference in training the different breeds. Now before you go jumping on this as all dogs are trained the same. I would say be sure to do your homework before we debate this. The method is the same yes and it works but the dogs genetically are predisposed to certain ways of thinking. Dobes are... how did one of my trainers put it? Well she directed me to read Temple Grandins book Animals in Translation and that helped me understand much more than before in how my doberman sees the world.

Anyway, I'm going to be quiet now and work with the video's and bring Ele and I along.

GREAT NEWS!!! No bruises today or scratches. Working her out to get some of the energy off before training WORKS for her. I was simply not giving her enough exercise. Also we had not trained anything new for the past 6 months and I did not realize how much she "missed" that until working with training her to touch the hand.

Thanks again everyone for your help. Special thank you to Connie for your patience, understanding and information. It is so very much appreciated.

Polly

" Working her out to get some of the energy off before training WORKS for her."

Isn't it funny? It almost sounds counterintuitive, but as I mentioned, I am currently working with a dog who needs to have the edge taken off before the training sessions.

It seems that her brain is just too frizzy to settle down until she runs around good and hard. And then, the training sessions do even more to drain off some of her over-the-top energy. (This dog was a pacer back when she was under-exercised and untrained.)

 Quote: polly simpson

The method is the same yes and it works but the dogs genetically are predisposed to certain ways of thinking. Dobes are... how did one of my trainers put it?

While I don't disagree with this, I think it's more a matter of tweeking your training for the dog you have in front of you because even within breeds the temperment, amount of drive, etc of the dogs differ.

I've had three different Border Collies. With those three came three differing learning styles, three different sets of motivators, three distinct personalities and so on. I couldn't say "this is want worked for the last dog" and just plug it in. I had to look at the dog and tailor my training plan accordingly.

The beauty of marker training is that the basic premise works across the board - young dogs, old dogs, big dogs, little dogs, shy dogs, dominant dogs, it works.

 Quote:

The difference between training dobes and GSD's is simply that GSD's are typically herding type dogs where Dobes use prey.

But OTOH it's all still prey drive - the herding drive is refined prey drive. With more idependent dogs NILIF works wonders in teaching them that they need you, but from your description of your girl it sounds like she is a lovely young dog with good focus on you and really wants to work with you, she just needs to be shown how and given plenty to do to keep that brain and body exercised!

"The beauty of marker training is that the basic premise works across the board - young dogs, old dogs, big dogs, little dogs, shy dogs, dominant dogs, it works. "


I sure do agree!

Strengthens bond, increases confidence (in both dog and human!), gives the dog the opportunity to think things out for herself, and works that doggy brain in the best ways.

Polly, glad to hear your starting marker training. I was almost 60 when I first started with it.

I started training my first dog back....well..back when Connie was a kid.

I was a "do it because I told" you trainer. Had some success with it, but markers were like an epiphany for me with dog training. Soooo much more that you AND the dog will get out of it.

Hang in there!

I love marker training for Dobes. I LOVE the focus, and I love to watch the gears turn while my dog problem solves during shaping. I REALLY love to see the light in his eyes when he knows he did something right...so cool.

One of the biggest challenges of owning a Dobe IME is keeping them mentally happy because they are always thinking and NEED something to think about. Marker training fills this need really well.

I exercise my dog before training too. It helps him to keep four on the floor and generally keeps him out of trouble.

You see, Polly? It's not just me! LOL.

Even really really really OLD people like Bob find marker training and change their entire training POV!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

You see, Polly? It's not just me! LOL.

Even really really really OLD people like Bob find marker training and change their entire training POV!

Yep, Bob told us all about the time that they all left the cave and tried marker training on that mammoth herd.....

Thank you all again and again.

I have been the bane of many instructors in my 30 years of training. If it didn't make sense to me I just kept asking questions and if they couldn't give me a good reason then I just wouldn't do it. Really made a stir the day I walked off the seminar tracking field because they wanted me to force track my dog. Somehow even his breeder got involved and scolded me. Didn't make sense to me and I was not going to do that to my dog who didn't enjoy tracking anyway (I was his 4th owner and who knows what they had done with him in the previous 2 years). I asked, what can I do to encourage the behavior I want and the answer just did not make sense. He was my buddy for another 10 years and he passed away with several titles.

FINALLY, something that makes perfect sense to me and to my dog. Like I said previously.... I TEACH completely off lead and in the house. Well except for tracking etc but you understand what I am saying, basic exercises are taught in the house and off lead. If I can't get my dog to understand without a leash on then we need to go back to basics because I AM DOING SOMETHING WRONG. I do not add distractions until the behavior I am asking for has been perfectly executed without distractions for a week or so then begin adding small distractions and working our way to larger ones. Each step is something that is important to me and if I pay attention to the steps then the end result takes care of itself. Marker training should have always been the first step and now I know.

My dog actually put herself to bed after our romp in the basement tonight. I was making her crazy by not giving her enough exercise. So happy that you all helped us, very compassionately with why my dog is being so rough with me. Well, in a nut shell doing what I asked of her and the huge release of energy when marked was like a gun going off within her so she hit me hard through body slamming knowing that I would not correct her when I had just marked the correct behavior and release. She is sleeping peacefully in her crate tonight.

Absolutely no bruises or scratches today and this is a new development for us.

Marker training is the only method I have studied (and am still studying probably for life without feeling proficient) that I have zero quams about. It simply makes sense. In 2 very very short sessions Ele now understands that when I put my hand out I want her to touch it. No amount of compulsion would have or could have brought that behavior about so quickly without avoidance.

I am a believer and finally ready to go forward with my dog in her training, knowing how to take that edge down so we can actually learn and my be less bruised and battered.

Agree Kristel that every dobe I have owned has had to be constantly trained with and learning all the way to their Senior days. Ele started on day one with me with a cube with food in it to figure out how to get it out and that I stopped teaching her is a shame on me. I should have had a friend continue with her training while I was Ill and recovering but can't go back now.

In my dogs first year she went to obedience class, agility class was socialized 5 times a week at the various pet stores and other safe pet friendly places, went through an 8 week tracking class and went to several schutzhund sessions (puppy tug only). Then I got sick and ended up in bed for a year, another year to recover and by this time she was 3 years old. Rather than just start over as I am now, I folded and gave up. As you can read she has not given up on me so here we are today learning this new thing together. She may be 6 now but there is still plenty of things we can do together and even compete if we decide to do that. Maybe she will not reach the potential that she could have if I had not of gotten sick but she can still title even in the 2nd 1/2 of her life. A BH, CD and tracking titles are not out of the question here.

Bob thank you for the encouragement. I am beginning to think that maybe I shouldn't give up simply because I am an old lady now. If others my age and my senior are still out here and having a blast with our dogs then so can I.

Night all. I do so appreciate you.

Polly