Okay so update:

Yesterday she had solid poop only in the AM, I'm not sure how detailed you want me to be about them...but they were pumpkin colored with slight mucus that was clear/grey in color.

Today she had one poop this AM and it was pumpkin colored without mucus. It came out small, and like say grape size. But still hard and cleaned up easy off grass.

She's on 1/2 c C&R and 1 Tbs pumpkin 4X a day. Should I change anything?

Oh and fecal came back negative for parasites and giardia, the vet recommended metronitizole(?) thinking it might be a bacteria she picked up.

I would go one more day on the Chicken & Rice. You want to make sure her stool is firm more than one time before gradually adding in the kibble back in.
Keep the meals small & frequent like you are doing.
I would think if the stool is ok tonight you can start gradually adding small amounts of kibble back in tomorrow. But remember, whatever you add in kibble wise you have to reduce the C&R by that amount. Still keeping the meals small and frequent.
As for the what the vet recommended, i'll wait for Connie or Betty to chime in.

okay so she did great on C&R even when mixed with kibble. However today, she had runny poop again. She's on 1 cup kibble and a spoonful of C&R. Do you think it is the kibble that is the problem at this point?

 Quote: Claire Milliken

okay so she did great on C&R even when mixed with kibble. However today, she had runny poop again. She's on 1 cup kibble and a spoonful of C&R. Do you think it is the kibble that is the problem at this point?

I'm sorry about the setback. Questions:


What giardia test was done? Did we go into the difficulty with diagnosing giardia and how the usual fecal is unreliable?

Is the dog on the Metronidazole (Flagyl) that the vet recommended? (I missed that post until now.) How many days on it?

How many days did it take to go from all C&R to almost all kibble? Remind us of what kibble it is.




eta
The orange-y poop also mentioned above --- that's not uncommon when giving pumpkin.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/16/2011 06:40 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Hmm I'm not exactly sure what test was done for giardia, he just said "test for giardia and parasites." Yes I've heard that is hard to catch on the test, but she was treated for 3 days with Panacur with no improvement.

No she is not on Metronidazole, would it be beneficial? I wasn't sure.

Okay she was on C&R a solid two days, then kibble was integrated over the next 5 days to the point where it was 1 cup kibble with a spoonful or so of C&R. It's Canidae grain free. This is also what has happened in the past with TOTW, things were great on C&R until it was primarily all kibble again.

Thanks for all the help, I'm just wondering if perhaps this is just a genetic issue or what.

I think it's really likely to be a recurrence of the giardia, if that was a solid diagnosis.

I'm not a vet and I'm not trying to diagnose, but I do know that giardia is VERY prone to recur, to the point where I've read articles entitled "Giardia in Dogs: Is it Ever Really Gone?" and "Giardiasis Recurrence Statistics."

"Okay she was on C&R a solid two days, then kibble was integrated over the next 5 days to the point where it was 1 cup kibble with a spoonful or so of C&R. It's Canidae grain free. This is also what has happened in the past with TOTW, things were great on C&R until it was primarily all kibble again. "

Were you keeping a record/journal? Was the poop great every day and then suddenly soft? Or did it gradually soften?

I'll watch for your post back. I'd also go back to the C&R diet immediately because no matter what triggered it, giardia or bacteria or what, she has an inflamed gut again and it needs soothing.

If you tell me the amount of C&R she gets per day, I'll help you with getting the right calcium into it so the gradual change to real food after she gets log poops again can be slower, without worries about the missing calcium. (You can go ahead and make a batch; the calcium can be added to it after it's prepared, and even after you have given her a meal or more out of it. Just keep track of (1) how much of the prepared food you have to supplement, and (2) how much of the prepared food she eats per day.)

I'll try to get Dr. Betty's input, too.

My own opinion would be to follow the vet's Flagyl recommendation, and also to give the C&R (with the correct calcium) to soothe that gut, and I'd replace it very gradually with real food, keeping a record of poop results.

I wouldn't be married to grain-free food, in this case. (Remember that kibble requires a starchy ingredient to "kibble" the food, so removing grain starch means adding some other starch, often something like white potato and/or pea starch.)

If you can afford the Flagyl I would give it. It does not cause harm and can cure many intestinal problems, lingering problems like giardia or bacterial infection.

The stool pattern you are describing suggests some disease agent. In addition to being a mess to clean up, loose stool says the dog isn't absorbing well, and a pup needs "all systems go" to grow and develop correctly.

Give the Flagyl a try.

My GSD puppy is on a raw diet and I have had just a couple of occasions of runny poop.I gave 2 teaspoons of pumpkin, twice a day and rested her system for about twelve hours. Meals were very small to start with and once they firmed up ( they were orange ) I increased the amount. Well dumb me, thinking since pumpkin was good for both loose and hard stools, gave her the pumpkin again. Loose orange poop ensued and I cut the pumpkin out altogether and the next day all was normal again. That's all of my experience so far, thought it may help..........Ronnie

Sounds a bit like a very allergic dog I had years ago, ended up allergic to corn, wheat, soy, pork, beef, grasses and I forget what all else.

We got a blood test for allergic reactions (expensive) after the problems became progressively more severe, including losing most of his hair coat. He was about 7 or 8 months old at that time.

Web research found us a food he could eat, and he got allergy shots like people, and ended up OK.

Keep allergy in mind, if things recommended above don pan out for you.

 Quote: Jody Steel

Sounds a bit like a very allergic dog I had years ago, ended up allergic to corn, wheat, soy, pork, beef, grasses and I forget what all else.

We got a blood test for allergic reactions (expensive) after the problems became progressively more severe, including losing most of his hair coat. He was about 7 or 8 months old at that time.

Web research found us a food he could eat, and he got allergy shots like people, and ended up OK.

Keep allergy in mind, if things recommended above don pan out for you.

Hi, Jody,

I'm glad you found a food that worked well for your dog.

I do need to add a post script of information that may not have been as widely known at that time: There is no blood test that reliably identifies food allergies in dogs. There is no test at all, in fact, including the gold standard for environmental allergens (intradermal testing) that can identify food allergens for dogs except a strict elimination diet.

Regardless of what a GP vet may suggest, there is no authoritative support for RAST or ELISA (blood) or even intradermal tests for identifying food allergens for an allergic dog.

This section from Doctors Foster & Smith at http://www.peteducation.com is agreed with by every vet manual:
QUOTE: There is no evidence that blood tests are accurate for the diagnosis of food allergies. Veterinary dermatologists insist that there is no merit in these tests whatsoever in the diagnosis of food allergies. The only way to accurately diagnose food allergies is with a food trial as detailed above.

While the intradermal skin testing is excellent for diagnosing atopy (inhalant allergies) it is ineffective for food allergies. While specialized blood tests can be used to help in the diagnosis of atopy, they have no benefit in diagnosing food allergies.

In our review of all the current books and articles on veterinary dermatology and allergies, we could not find a single dermatologist that endorsed anything other than the food trial as an effective diagnostic aid. If you want to diagnose and treat food allergies you must do a food trial.





PS
I don't mean to jump on your post at all. That's common misinformation, and unfortunately it often comes from the GP vet.

I'm glad you resolved your dog's problems. I know what you went through. Dog allergies are so frustrating, so miserable ......