ken , i had developed my current validated dog , hector , using flinks methods and he turned out to be a great dog .

in developing henry , the new guy , i have used ellis' philosophy . i think the difference lies mainly in MEs' commitment to reward based training , although he readily accepts any application of the four quadrants of operant conditioning , where it is appropriate .

i questioned ME re flinks ( methods ) , and like any truly professional trainer , he had nothing adverse to say , referring only to the differences in their methods . the one big difference he noted , that i recall , was flinks' " into my arms " protocol , which ME felt would contribute to increased possessiveness in some dogs .

Duane,
again good feedback. Your thoughts on working lines vs. not validated what I was thinking. With working lines I figure that you are getting a dog that more than likely has the desirable traits for working...not gun shy, great drives etc.
With an AKC-dog, it's iffy...yet, if you've got a dog that has good prey drive you definitely have some clay that you can mold...right? Guess now all that is left to do is EVERYTHING. =)

@IAN.
Good to know that I don't have to burn the Bernhard Flinks DVD's. I would imagine that fundamentally ME and BF are teaching the same thing...being reward based.

Friday if my wife doesn't spend all of the money in the flexible spending area of the budget I'll pick up some ME tapes.

yup ken , pretty close in practice . . .

" i'll make this dog want to play with me so much , i can teach him to do anything "

I took the advice and got the video on marker training. I actually wasn't too far off with some of the things I was doing but it certainly did give me some insight and is going to help me to correct some of the mistakes I was making.

I'm 154 minutes into the video and it seems kind of general.

I probably made some mistakes with "charging the mark" but I'm working on fixing that. Also, I'm probably not at a point where I should have added commands to the signals but the puppy is coming along with that. So far she does sit, down and come and I tossed in the "hand" thing today.

I get the concept that more complicated things are broken into easier to digest chunks...guess I would have liked to have seen "how to" on some more advanced commands...I guess this is an intro video. Although Ed dove into more of a deep explanation of marker training with many, many examples and footage of trainers and dogs, I don't feel that a ton of really new information was presented over the old copy of basic dog obedience I have. I know his philosophy has changed somewhat and it's reflected in this release, but at the end of the day I'd have to say it's pretty comparable to BDO in my humble opinion. Hopefully the Ellis video on Training dogs with food is more thorough. =)

"Hopefully the Ellis video on Training dogs with food is more thorough. "

It is.

I think the intro one is worth the reasonable price, but I usually tell folks who are pretty familiar with marker training that they could start with the first Ellis one.

Still ..... I do think that Power of Markers is a good preview and that it makes Power of Food clearer and more useful. JMO!

"I would have liked to have seen "how to" on some more advanced commands.... "

You will, in Food and in Tug. Part three of Food is Shaping Behaviors and Training Exercises.

For me, more complex behaviors are best started when both you and the dog are well grounded in how to marker train and how to "marker learn."

I'd go "shopping" through the free clips and previews, too.
http://leerburg.com/flix/searchResults.php?searchfor=ellis
http://leerburg.com/flix/searchResults.php?searchfor=markers
are what I got from the Video on Demand search terms ELLIS and then MARKERS.

For example, here's Cindy free-shaping Raine to retrieve a piece of PVC.
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/91/Free_Shaping_Raine_to_Retrieve_PVC_Pipe

You see how Raine thinks her way through, with her understanding of how free-shaping and luring work.

Also, I grabbed a couple more quick choices as examples:
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/130/Free_Shaping_vs_Luring

and
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/235/Cindy_Training_Endy_-_our_New_8_Week_old_Puppy_from_Michael_Ellis

Connie,

Thank you! I figure I'll use the next two weeks (in between paydays) to continue working drive per the Bernhard Flinks videos I already have and doing marker training. I will take a look at the video clips that you suggested as well.

Respectfully,

Ken Friend