Quote: Anne Jones

Like Bob & I both stated....a really good dog that is meant for the work, shouldn't need a whip crack to turn him on. My dog SCREAM in the truck when I pull off the highway because they know where they are going. No need for a whip. They just wanna work & BITE!

Watch the experienced dogs on club night. At our club, at least, every dog on the lot is begging to work. TD has multiple dogs kenneled near the field. They, as well as the other dogs on the field with their handlers, begin a chorus at just the sight of someone digging the equipment out of the storage chest or setting up blinds.

Bitework, when done properly, is very gratifying for these dogs.

I understand how the dogs that are excited for the work act. I see it at our club too. I'm told that it will take alot of time for my dog to get to that point simply because he's a rottweiler. One of our members won the USRC national championship in 2011 with his rottie and he told me that his dog was well over a year old before he barked and he was so stunned when the dog barked that he didn't praise or do anything. They just mature later.

Good morning! Duke does love the flirt pole at home, I haven't taken one to training with us as the one I made is a bit long and heavy - the one toy he's consistently engaged with on the field is the jute rag, he loves that thing. However, sometimes he wants to grab it with his legs and 'pounce' on it instead of biting it Normally he'll give it a good bite, release, bite, eventually hold, then a good pull and when released he tries to give it right back to start the game over again - we've been working on him 'winning' it and walking away from the trainer after the 'win'. His biting has been sloppy in that he drops it /lets it go after getting it in his mouth and I think it's a lack of interest in, or focus on, the game at that point. Once he has a good grip he does a great job trying to get the toy, and he does constantly bring it back to play, so he's not bored - just not focused.

ETA: Also, Duke is also, or was, very quiet. He had never barked apart from the let me out of the crate whine until we started working with this trainer.

Edited by Kristin Muntz (01/29/2013 08:25 AM)
Edit reason: ETA

Hey, Kory;

One of the dogs in our club is a Rottie from solid German lines. He is a beast in protection work.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Kirsten, have you tried a flirt pole with your dog? That can put in a lot of extra movement to the rag and really stimulate prey in a low to medium drive pup/dog.
With the rag by hand you just may not be quick enough to do it.

I recently made a flirt pole and now Carlin will chase a toy almost anywhere. It's been improving his drive, and recently he played a bit of tug in front of strange men at a beach parking lot!

I highly recommend trying a flirt pole.

"Maybe you can bring some of what you are learning to the group and help the others."


Bottom line is that people who should give bitework advice and help: EXPERIENCED people.



BTW, thank you to the folks who are just starting out in bitework for saying so. That is really appreciated.

Sorry... I didn't mean for Kristin to instruct bitework. But I don't feel that she should sit back and let another green trainer put her dog on the fence and agitate it.

 Quote: Duane Hull

Sorry... I didn't mean for Kristin to instruct bitework. But I don't feel that she should sit back and let another green trainer put her dog on the fence and agitate it.

Oh, I didn't understand what you meant. Sorry.

The green trainer issue is one of the most worrisome in the thread.

" ... a trainer who is training her dogs with a larger club out of the area. I have gotten a good bit out of it in general but there are no folks there that have long term experience in protection. She is essentially bringing what she learns back to us and adopting it slowly, while we all get our dogs worked out" ...... this sounded like a problem to me, and the 2nd- and 3rd-hand no-real-experience info transfer seemed like adding to that.

But I understand now what you meant: that she might relate to the other person that instead of agitating the dog on the fence, there might be better things they can do. Right?

 Quote: Duane Hull

Hope we get some experienced help here.

Moved from accidental location:

 Quote: Duane Hull

Kristin:

I read an article by one of the pioneers of sport training, which explained how we translate the dog's natural drive to hunt and kill prey into prey drive that is effective for use in training sport. There are four basic elements of the drive, pounce being second after stalk.

Stalk
Pounce
Acquire
Kill

This is the premise behind teasing the dog before allowing him to actually get a bite. The more you tease with the rag before the bite, the more gratifying the bite becomes. The more gratifying the bite, the stronger the desire to kill.

The article was in Schutzhund USA mag. It is from 1981, and is by Bernhardt Mannel. I've yet to find a full copy published online, but it is in the public domain. If I ever find a full copy online, I will link it here.

Kristen replied:
Duane, I'm going to try to find that archived somewhere as well, I will let you know if I have any luck.