If you want to PM someone Solange, I'd suggest Willie Tilton. She's the one person I know has hands on experience with these types of dogs. Kuvazs, Pyrenees, etc. I'll bet she tells you the odds of bi***slapping this dog into line aren't real good.

Its true she is a dog, but you better take into account what a dogs temperament is and where part of that temperament comes from. It is a breed thing.

That independence they have comes from protecting on their own, making their own decisions on what is a threat, who is part of their "pack" and who to listen to. They don't back down from a fight.

You just need to be smarter, not physical. Corrections have to be fair in her mind, and very clear.It doesnt need to be something too harsh. Simple things that have a different perception to her. Don't announce your coming, tell her to come to you. Teach her a place command, simple things that have an element of submission from her, because she wants to. See what I mean.

This will explain what I'm trying to say. Its from the Kuvasz club of America. She may be removed from the flocks and the temperament watered down, but just like you wouldn't do Schutzhund with an English Setter, you need to account for specifics in a breed.

http://www.kuvasz.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=14

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything near bitch-slapping. The people that I suggested both managed hard dogs, one of which wouldn't back down from a fight, and the other being a puppy in a family home being managed by a household engineer.

 Quote: Duane Hull

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything near bitch-slapping. The people that I suggested both managed hard dogs, one of which wouldn't back down from a fight, and the other being a puppy in a family home being managed by a household engineer.

 Quote:

Not long after I got my GSD, she growled at me once. Once.

It was more this that I meant Duane.

The point there was that I feel that challenging the master can not lead to anything good, and must be curbed.

As Mara pointed out in her reply, my dog is not the same type of dog as this one, and what worked for me wouldn't work on this breed. Either way, it must be resolved, or this dog will be a danger to Solange's family.

If Willie is a better refernce for this breed, then I second your suggestion.

ETA. What I did with my dog was way more involved than just a physical correction, but it worked because, as Mara put it, my dog cared about what I thought. The core was many repetitions of "I take the bone, I give it back. I take the bone, whether you approve or not".

That is very nice of you and I can not thank you enough.....will give an update in a little while and a positive one I hope.

Merci Beaucoup

Solange

Solange, a dog is a dog is a dog ..... BUT ..... this is a breed meant to live independently of people, as Steve is saying. This is not the herders most of us are used to.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Disclaimer: I'm not a LGD expert at all.


But I do differentiate (quite a bit) between herders and LGDs.

Just throwing it out there.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

 Quote: Duane Hull

This is going to sound really old school, and I know I'm going to take some heat for saying this, but here goes...

Not long after I got my GSD, she growled at me once. Once.

If you do this, it really helps to have a dog that cares about what you think ... Herding dogs are bred to work with you. My Border Collies have never growled/resource guarded from me more than once and I wasn't really hard on them. But guardian breeds are quite independent and they can take you or leave you sometimes. It still might work if you know what your'e doing but if you don't, or the dog is pretty independent you could have a real predicament on your hands

 Quote: steve strom

If you want to PM someone Solange, I'd suggest Willie Tilton. She's the one person I know has hands on experience with these types of dogs. Kuvazs, Pyrenees, etc. I'll bet she tells you the odds of bi***slapping this dog into line aren't real good.

Its true she is a dog, but you better take into account what a dogs temperament is and where part of that temperament comes from. It is a breed thing.

That independence they have comes from protecting on their own, making their own decisions on what is a threat, who is part of their "pack" and who to listen to. They don't back down from a fight.

You just need to be smarter, not physical. Corrections have to be fair in her mind, and very clear.It doesnt need to be something too harsh. Simple things that have a different perception to her. Don't announce your coming, tell her to come to you. Teach her a place command, simple things that have an element of submission from her, because she wants to. See what I mean.

This will explain what I'm trying to say. Its from the Kuvasz club of America. She may be removed from the flocks and the temperament watered down, but just like you wouldn't do Schutzhund with an English Setter, you need to account for specifics in a breed.

http://www.kuvasz.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=14

In fact, you might do well by reading some past threads here on the LGBs, and particularly the ones that have Willie posting in them.

I just had a little lift in my heart reading your message. I had read similar articles about the Kuvasz during my months of research before deciding to get Ziva. I never been physicaly hard on her but I did yell and slap in the air totaly missing her due to dispare and pain from the nipping. But never did I use a stick or other things to give her a lesson.

It is obvious to me that I do not have the right arguments or ways to make her see that I am the leader of this pack....I hope that Willie Tilton will be able to help. I will try to find her in this pool of users.

Many thanks Steve. During few days here I have seen or read many nice people....I am in deep gratitude to you all.

Solange

Solange, it wasn't until I worked on some books (copyediting and proofing) on the LGBs that I started to understand how different they were from other breeds. (I read a lot more here, in the rare threads about the LGBs.) It's part of their genetic makeup to be the boss, protector, decision-maker, and leader of their flock, all independent of the humans who may be in the house.

The purpose of the LGD was to remain with the flock because she had been reared from puppyhood with the flock. This is not a herder, but was meant to be actually a member of the flock (not of the human family).

None of this was known to me, even though I thought I knew a fair amount about dogs.

Here's a pile of info: http://www.lgd.org/


Needless to say, this is all JMO. I have no firsthand experience.

Thank you Connie, I new they were different and I am not educating her the same way I did my Doberman Pincher, I have read a great deal about them and still do lol.....I am determine to make this work by educating myself more specificaly about the breed but I suppose I am so affraid to ruine her but I must make mistakes if I want to do well I guess....I just feel that time is running out....However even knowing and respecting the breed's caracteristics about being independent and good thinkers....She is still a dog that needs to trust me enough to be the leader....the trick here is to HOW lol......thank you very much for your help on the matter....wish me luck!!!

Solange

Hi Solange

I may be way off the mark here, so forgive me if I am wrong, but I am wondering if you are slightly concerned about how this pup is going to turn out, and possibly a bit fearful of the adult dog yet to come.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I mean no offense or criticism, but I am sitting here reading this with a degree of unease.

I understand Duane’s point about not being too hung up on breed specifics, but equally, I think some dogs are hard wired to be more determined than others to resist ‘interference’ from doing their ‘job’

It is my understanding that flock guardians are subject to exact breeding practices with tried and tested pairings to create a highly alert and single minded animal, required solely to protect and defend against predators, human or animal; a chap I work with is Turkish, and he said the Kangals they had were in no way pets, and him and his brothers were not allowed to approach them, for any reason, these dogs had no orthodox training or socialising, they were simply brought in as pups, left with the older dogs, and learned through the pack how to do it’s job, the only human interaction was when buckets of scraps were thrown to them from a distance

I know this isn’t the breed you have, but they have similar jobs.

May I ask what made you chose this particular breed after not having a dog since the Dobes 15 years ago?