Quote:

In the article, the following statement is made: "...even though the veteran had his service dog's certification papers." However, Sam pointed out that the ADA does not recognize any registry or certification. So it begs to be asked, Certified by who?

If the guy got his dog from a legitimate service dog breeding/training facility THEY are the ones that will certify that dog for his specific use. Some of these training facilities will help owners train their own dogs and then test the dog and handler on their proficiency. If they past the test, they can be certified through that training facility. The ADA does not require certification, but it does acknowledge and support the training and testing of dogs so that they can be certified through ethical, well known, credentialed trainers and facilities. You can call the ADA and ask them for recommendations on where to get your dog trained or tested/certified and while they cannot actively advocate for one specific place they CAN provide you with a list of acknowledged programs.

I'm outraged when the airline doesn't require a doctors letter and then follow up to make sure it's not a fake letter. I'm outraged when I go to a public garden and see a spaniel dragging it's owner around and being admitted as a service dog. I'm outraged when I hear of people bringing their pets to grocery stores and allowing their pets to jump up on produce stands and meat lockers. Every single time I see someone doing something that *I* consider a violation of law, policy, or is a direct threat to public safety, I report them to a manager or call the authorities. If no one picks up the slack, then I wash my hands of it because I'm not going to police everyone in the world. I hold grudges well enough that I've got a list of places I refuse to step foot in because of their policies or actions toward me or others.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Come on Duane, if a perscription tag won't work than why would anything else? If you change the law to say that a service dog needs a prescription ID tag dispensed only by a licensed Dr then a tag is as good as anything else. But as far as some sort of license goes, do you realize how ridiculously easy it is to make a fake ID with a halfway decent computer and printer? College kids get into bars with them all. the. time. And honestly, if a business refues to educate themselves now (10 min and google is all you need) then why would they educate themselves as to a proper ID system?

Mara; I've been advocating a centralized ID system (no different than your prescription tag) for the past two weeks. It would be as simple as providing a copy of the prescription with an application for an "ADA approved" ID tag.

That would, at minimum, deter the majority of these "agencies" that are advertising their cracker jack credentials, as they wouldn't be able to operate in light of day. Sure, some bent on breaking the law will counterfeit the IDs, but it will be a federal offense, so the existing free-for-all would be squashed.

As I said before, I don't feel that the impetus for enforcing ADA policy should be placed on the mom-and-pop deli owner.

In the article I linked, the restaurant owner knew the regulations, but expelled the disabled veteran, who had credentials, claiming that the credentials could be fake.

ETA: My idea is pbly not the best way to do it, but SOMETHING needs to be done. Clearly, we cannot depend solely on the scruples of these "service dog" owners.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

Being disabled is expensive and inconvenient enough already. The idea of adding more expense seems kind of like adding insult to injury.

So who's paying for the upkeep of the dog? The cost of a registration need not exceed the cost of one month's feed bill. A harness or "Service dog" vest costs more than that.

How much are they paying these "certification agencies"?

They are paying. They are paying for medication, they are paying for extra doctors visits, they are paying for modifcations to their home, they are paying for lost work opportunities. It isn't cheap being disabled. Adding another layer of expense and difficulty to rectify a problem they didn't create is unethical IMO. Many service dog agencies provide the dog and the gear free of charge. The person have to apply and be accepted. Some stores around here also provide discounts on food for a service dog. Many states don't even require a service dog to be subject to most licensing laws. I know MI doesn't.

 Quote: Duane Hull

In the article I linked, the restaurant owner knew the regulations, but expelled the disabled veteran, who had credentials, claiming that the credentials could be fake.

No, he did NOT know the law. The law states that no credentials are required. The dog can walk in wearing nothing and the handler doesn't have to have any "proof" that it's a service dog. He should only have kicked the dog out if it was causing a problem.

I like the prescription tag idea as long as no certification/training is required of the dog and the tag could be covered by insurance. Tanner did his job with very little training. About the only thing he learned that pets don't do was to go under a table or chair and stay there while his owner was eating so he wouldn't get tripped over.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

Adding another layer of expense and difficulty to rectify a problem they didn't create is unethical IMO.

I think this is the key right there. How do we eliminate all the frauds without impacting people using genuine service dogs?

Wow

I did not realize that I landed on such a passionate topic.

I do want to go off topic and express my appreciation to the intelligent and thought provoking posts. I have learned a lot and at the same time it stayed focused.


FHA has whole different rules for living with a service animals and this is a very interesting study in whole systems design as there are so many factors and players.

Thank you
RObert

You're right, Robert. This board has good members.


I didn't realize that FHA would be a factor here, but of course it would be.

My apologies to the board for dragging this up again. I really wasn't going to, but I've been troubled by the notion that my proposal might seem unethical. This morning, I saw a Hoveround Powerchair commercial followed by an AARP ad, and it pushed me over the edge.

IMHO, a nomimal fee for a govt ID is no less ethical than charging for a handicapped vehicle registration or parking permit. My idea was not about the money. As has been stated by other posters, there are agencies to assist disabled who cannot afford the necessities. If an agency is going to the trouble and expense of training and providing a service dog, surely they wouldn't object to another twenty or thirty dollars to get the official ID.

Is it unethical for the owner and employees of a medical supply company to make a living selling wheelchairs and prosthetics to the physically impaired? IMHO, no. I do think it's unethical for people like the Facebook advertiser to sell certifications that aren't really necessary. Hoveround has put millions of people in powerchairs at little or no cost to the patient, while insurance rates go up for everyone because it's really the insurance companies that are paying for the chairs. Millions of elderly fall under the ADA, yet we stand idly by while the AARP is allowed to clip every dollar possible from them. In broad daylight.