Christina Stockinger wrote 10/15/2015 02:53 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Kristin Muntz ] #399541 - 10/15/2015 02:53 PM
Christina Stockinger Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2015 Posts: 1619 Loc: Brazil, Bahia Offline	Yes, Kristin, considering this, I do fully agree with you. When I wrote about that I never felt hate against anyone, I thought about people I know personnally. But now ~ thinking of dictators and all kind of human exploiters - then I certainly do feel hate and long or probably ever lasting disgust. But these are not only feelings of women, my husband, my brother and all friends of both sexes do feel the same. “If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling
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Candi Campbell wrote 10/15/2015 03:37 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399543 - 10/15/2015 03:37 PM
Candi Campbell Webboard User Reg: 03-28-2013 Posts: 1571 Loc: Offline	Quote: Christina Stockinger Yes the two Pit sisters, they do go on with each other well. Probably because they were together from the very beginning... Then came our Lab-Mix,female, an adopted stray and after some time quietly living together, began the attacks from the more dominant Pit... What I dont understand is why her sister doesn't attack the female Lab-Mix, plays with her in a friendly and funny way. They never had the least fight, but when her sister attacked her, she solidarisized with her. That's something I simply don't get. The two Pit sisters were original packmates from the same litter -- Number One is the "leader" and Number Two is a "follower" ... Later the female Lab was added to this K9 group, then when your "leader" Pit # One developed some animosity toward the Lab and attacked her for whatever DOGGIE cause, your "follower" Pit # Two allied/aligned with her own littermate in that conflict This is the NATURE of K9 Pack Structure DYNAMICS -- It has nothing to do with any "personal feelings" of Pit # Two (the "follower" littersister) ... A subordinate pack member will follow the lead of its superior packmate (but conversely, if subordinate Pit # Two had unexpectedly & uncharacteristically initiated an attack on your poor Lab, then superior Pit # One would have Followed HER Lead irrespective of any "personal feelings" one way or the other).
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Bob Scott wrote 10/15/2015 10:49 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399549 - 10/15/2015 10:49 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	With three dogs it's not uncommon for one to be more of the outsider. Especially if the two were bonded before the third came along. Also, sisters, brothers, litter mates don't necessarily mean they will stick together in a squabble. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Christina Stockinger wrote 10/16/2015 06:36 AM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399552 - 10/16/2015 06:36 AM
Christina Stockinger Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2015 Posts: 1619 Loc: Brazil, Bahia Offline	Thanks to you both, Candi and Bob, for your explanation. Yes, one has to understand thwe packstrucure of dogs. It is gruesome, it makes me shudder. But obviously this cannot be changed. The Lab is no longer in danger, because I now separe them without exception. Slippie, the aggressive on, is on a chain, when I allow Socks, the unaggressive Pit to play with her (without toys or anything). They have so much fun together and I feel sorry for the Lab to be always excluded. Do you think, this is a risk too? Should I live this too or is it ok? “If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling
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Candi Campbell wrote 10/16/2015 11:53 AM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399563 - 10/16/2015 11:53 AM
Candi Campbell Webboard User Reg: 03-28-2013 Posts: 1571 Loc: Offline	Quote: Christina Stockinger Thanks to you both, Candi and Bob, for your explanation. Yes, one has to understand thwe packstrucure of dogs. It is gruesome, it makes me shudder. But obviously this cannot be changed. The Lab is no longer in danger, because I now separe them without exception. Slippie, the aggressive on, is on a chain, when I allow Socks, the unaggressive Pit to play with her (without toys or anything). They have so much fun together and I feel sorry for the Lab to be always excluded. Do you think, this is a risk too? Should I live this too or is it ok? Christina, not sure if I understand the exact logistics of your situation, but I would never have one dog ON a CHAIN anywhere other dogs could Get @ It (especially in a 2-AGAINST-1 scenario) -- IMHO, that is asking for trouble Sooner or Later ... I would rather use a Portable Crate covered with a SHEET to keep the "possible combatants" apart during exercise or play time, so that the Separated Dog is kept SAFE
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Christina Stockinger wrote 10/16/2015 03:00 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Candi Campbell ] #399564 - 10/16/2015 03:00 PM
Christina Stockinger Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2015 Posts: 1619 Loc: Brazil, Bahia Offline	Thanks, Candi, for your warning. I do agree with you. But as I had to fight for crates more than 3 years, I Have at the moment no other solution. In between I pushed kennels for each dog through. The mason is almost finished with his work, now the roof has to be build and we have to wait for the doors and the fence. Then things will be easier. It is not dangerous as only Slippie, the problem Pit, is on a chain and only when the Lab is loose. She doesn't attack Slippie, she keeps herself very far from her, normally on the other side of the house. Our stray too. Only Socks, the second Pit, can reach her, sometimes they play a bit with each other. Yhe chains are quite long, so they can move over almost the whole veranda. “If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling
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Candi Campbell wrote 10/16/2015 04:19 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399567 - 10/16/2015 04:19 PM
Candi Campbell Webboard User Reg: 03-28-2013 Posts: 1571 Loc: Offline	Quote: Christina Stockinger Thanks, Candi, for your warning. I do agree with you. But as I had to fight for crates more than 3 years, I Have at the moment no other solution. In between I pushed kennels for each dog through. The mason is almost finished with his work, now the roof has to be build and we have to wait for the doors and the fence. Then things will be easier. It is not dangerous as only Slippie, the problem Pit, is on a chain and only when the Lab is loose. She doesn't attack Slippie, she keeps herself very far from her, normally on the other side of the house. Our stray too. Only Socks, the second Pit, can reach her, sometimes they play a bit with each other. Yhe chains are quite long, so they can move over almost the whole veranda. OK, thanks for the more detailed clarification, Christina
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Betty Landercasp wrote 10/16/2015 10:21 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399570 - 10/16/2015 10:21 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	Dogs are not "moral", they won't stick up for a weaker friend in a fight. At least, I have never seen that. I'd LIKE to see that, but it doesn't seem to happen. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Bob Scott wrote 10/16/2015 10:45 PM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399571 - 10/16/2015 10:45 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	In his day my long gone Norwich terrier ruled the canine roost including older daughter's Rotty. As he aged he lost his hearing and sight and my JRT started pushing him around. In the wild the old are often banished or even killed. No matter how we try and anthropomorphisize our "furbabies" actions many will still follow thousands of yrs of genetic behavior. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Gillian Allgeier wrote 10/17/2015 08:24 AM Re: Phenomenon Retrieve [Re: Christina Stockinger ] #399577 - 10/17/2015 08:24 AM
Gillian Allgeier Webboard User Reg: 10-02-2015 Posts: 2 Loc: Offline	My 4 month old GSD, found my only car key, that had a paracord attachment on it. I walk over 2 acres with 5 dogs everyday. This pup had only been home for a week. I searched for that key for hours. Went on our "find it" treat training walk, and heard a little jingle. Tank had found my key! I believe they get tuned into our scent right away. Boy was I grateful!!! Worth his weight in GOLD!
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