Matt, doesn't it seem oddd to be in B&H and in fight drive at the same time. That seems to me impossible. You could be seeing another drive . I'm learning so bear with me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Kevin, I see you already answered while I was typing. Defense during B&H should be exhibited, correct. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Defensive behaviors are often shown but the most desireable is fight drive and it sure can be shown in the B&H. So can prey drive be exhibited and often is. Remember that we talk about predominant drives and seldom drives to the exclusion of others. Depending on the character of the dog, the task the dog is expected to perform, and even the likes of the people involved in training and their training skill. I personall appreciate the dog that comes to the barking in fight drive and if another drive boils over that's OK IF it doesn't effect the over all performance of the dog!
Originally posted by Dave Lilley: Is civil agitation necessary if you want a dog to bite in fight drive? Or, is this just a way of proofing so that we know the dog will bite for real? I think that the answer is yes. If you want to work your dog in fight drive, or active aggression, whatever you choose to call it, I would say yes. It is my feeling that to work a dog in fight drive, you need to include muzzle work at some point in your training. I like to work my dogs in muzzle, as a proofing tool, and to maintain, or create the aggression towards the man. I feel that after a proper foundation is laid on a sleeve, and the dog is doing good in civil agitation, it is time for the muzzle to come out. The only thing is most bitches cannot handle muzzle work, as they really don't have true aggression. When muzzling a female, with most females, and they get violent, it is more of a flight or fight type situation. Females normally do not have the nerves to work in true aggression. I included this, so that I could draw a line in the diffrent responses that dogs give.
That is an easy one. It depends on how the dog was trained. If the dog expects the helper to react in a way that requires a defensive reaction the dog will engage in that reaction no matter what the agitator does.
What you were describing could also be a prey response shaped to look like that. Most fight drive dogs I have seen are not going to get that close to the person. They will stand off just far enough that they can react prior to the person being able to get to them. They will not put themselves in a position they can't react to what the person does. NO JUMPING. They will stand their ground or circle the person and bark, intently watching the person for any movement that would costitute an attack from the person.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
If a dog circles a decoy and is barking it is in defense.. there is no other reason to be behind the decoy other than it is "safe"..
secondly, I am still unsure how you think a dog would run somewhere to engage in a life-or-death situation... I would think only with heavy-handed training would this be possible, and if so, the dog would not be running very fast <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Now I will concede that it could be a prey response that was shaped... but hackles would be the tell-tell indicator, right?
Originally posted by Richard Cannon: Most fight drive dogs I have seen are not going to get that close to the person. They will stand off just far enough that they can react prior to the person being able to get to them. They will not put themselves in a position they can't react to what the person does. NO JUMPING. They will stand their ground or circle the person and bark, intently watching the person for any movement that would costitute an attack from the person.
This all sounds like defense to me....
The fight drive dogs I have seen required massive amounts of training to keep them off of the decoy, it was like a demon.. always wanting to engage, never once showing "caution"
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