Milt, I think you posted on the wrong page?? What the hell are you talking about???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sorry its the downers. My point is related to the shelter dogs, mutts, white sheperds, etc. Originally they came from working stock.I'm just curious if there is a recessive gene floating around that can make a dog that is not bred for work a worker (psd).

Milt

 Quote:

Originally posted by Laureen:
I obviously know nothing of the personnel's skills...Which would you say are knowledgeable k9 units?

Given that only 5% of "working line" dogs would make QUALITY police dogs (i.e. that can perform competently in ALL phases of patrol work - not just sniffing for drugs).

Finding a quality working dog in a shelter has got to be about equal in probablity to an individual being struck by lightning.

Therefore, any unit that wastes time looking in shelters for a police dog I would classify as NOT very knowledgeable... unless they have some sort of pre-screening process where someone else sorts through thousands of dogs.

They approach GSD rescues that pre-screen dogs and then they test them themselves, and it seems to be working out well for several groups in the US. I guess using your logic that means there must be alot of unknowledgeable police forces.

I haven't sent any of my dogs so I can't speak for the process here in Canada.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Laureen:
...I guess using your logic that means there must be alot of unknowledgeable police forces.

Correct! There is a shortage of knowledgeable people in most fields... policing is certainly no exception.

Ikors comments about politics are "right on." In many departments the political situation virtually ensures mediocrity (or incompetence)in k-9 work.

Originally posted by Dave Lilley:


There is a shortage of knowledgeable people in most fields... policing is certainly no exception.



I agree! My point was merely that several groups were using rescues - you'd be surprised at the dogs that land in rescue.

Here's a few more examples, in addition to the ones I already posted:

Florida, New England, New Jersey State Police, New York State Police, Austin Police Force, Air Force, K9, SAR , coast guard, sheriff's offices, dept of corrections, ground zero, you name it - rescued GSDs are there. Jerry - it was the OPP I spoke to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know the posts relative to this thread deal mainly with PSD's. I did want to include my comments about rescues however. Many of our working dogs are single purpose; drug, explosives, cadaver etc. 15 of the last 20 dogs I've put on the street were rescues from local shelters. I tested, approximately 100 dogs (mostly Labradors) to find the 15 that were accepted. The 15 that were kept are welcome additions to our canine unit. I've always subscribed to the philosopy that I'm not concerned about where a dog comes from, but what that dog can do for me. In addition, I have rescued 4 Malanois that were purchased by people because they were cute puppies. That puppy however grew into a full sized dog( who knew). 2 are excellant drug dogs, and 2 are excellant explosives detectors. With effort and diligence, good dogs are out there to be found, but you have to be willing to look at and turn down a lot more than you will ever select. For me anyway, success in selection has come from objective testing, based on an experienced eye, not to mention some good old-fashioned luck.

David Frost

You make a good point. If all you need is a sniffer, many shelter dogs would be fine.

However, for ALL purpose patrol work, I'd be VERY surprised to see a quality dog that comes from a shelter.

Are any of these shelter dogs competent in ALL aspects of patrol work (protection, tracking, agility etc)???

One of the toughest and most successful street police dogs I ever saw was a "rescue" of sorts...and an American bred dog (GSD). While he did not come from a shelter, that is where he was headed if he had not been taken by the trainer.

Does this "prove" anything? No, only that you can find a jewel anywhere. It certainly does not mean that any appreciable number of acceptable dogs exists in the shelter system here or in Canada. "Nose" dogs for drug/bomb/agriculture work? Yes, but good, serious PSD candidates? Not very many.

Years ago, many offficers had no choice but to use donated dogs. ("Oh, yeah, he will make a great Po-lice dog...he's already bitten three people!") Some of these dogs were really something...I'm just not sure What!
All the ball drive of a house plant, but send them into a building and wait for the screams!

Again, in the final analysis this is just one more issue which is really about time. How much time does it take to locate, selection test and train a good dog? (LOTS!)How much time can he give you on the job if he works out at all? (Do you even know how old he is?) How much time will you waste with dogs that wash out part way through the program? (LOTS!)How much time will you need to spend on training basics that a started, young dog will already have? (LOTS!)

Will you save money with donated or shelter dogs? If your time is worth anything, probably not, and mostly what you will end up with will be dogs not worth the time it takes to feed them.