Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
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I've got to go the other way and do the SchH title first - for me, it's the sport that I'm experienced in, and when everything is said and done, the SchH title is the one that will allow me to breed the dog.
But man...ASR just gives me a woody! I have seriously never been this excited about a new dog sport before! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I would do sch first to develop the bite and what prey drive that you need. then i would work in PSA or ASR. Besides, I would be worryed that the helper would get bit in the wrong place if you did psa first. the sleve is not the focus in psa. They like to see the dog bite the armpit or close to that area. you get higher points. But like you said, it can depend on the dog. i find that the sleve is a step before the suit work. so wouldnt you do the sleve sport before the suit sport? i do beleive that you can cross train, but you need to take the proper steps.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
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David, you are confused about what you are looking at. No where in the rulkes of schutzhund does it say that a dog should bark for a sleeve - do a lot of schutzhund dogs bark at sleeves? Yes - but thats poor training not something that is called for in the rules.
New trainers need to realize that Schutzhund, PSA, Ring Sport, KNPV, Mondio Ring are ALL dog sports. They are trained according to a set of rules. Good and bad trainers are found in every sport and in my opinion (which is obviously different from many others) is that they are all dog sports and when people want to expand the training to service work the training needs to change. Even in Holland the police run KNPV dogs through 6 weeks of extensive training before the dogs are allowed to work as police service dogs.
Sorry Ed, i should have put it more as going for the sleve not bark at the sleve. i do agree with you. But in the area that i am in the peole training in sch are what you described is the wrong why to do it. I find that the dogs are crazy over the sleve and will never bite anything else. its the fabric that they look for. for a protection dog i do feel that that could be a bad thing. for a pure sport dog that acording to them is great. what do you think. im by no means a expert on sport training but do understand protection training and in my area it seems to be a big difference. Should there be?
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
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PSA is nation wide?
It didn't appear that way to me when I did the web searchs for information regarding it, but it just may be that clubs without websites aren't listed.
How many clubs are there exactly that are holding PSA trials? And is there a idea of how many people are actually working in the sport? I'd really like to know the total number of clubs and members if the information is available.
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
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Loc: Idaho
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Thanks,
Actually, I had just seen that list on the offical PSA site recently. I guess I based my questions on the forum from that site and a few others, plus the area's that talk about their trials - looking at the names, it didn't really seem like there was more than 25 to 30 people actively competing in the sport over the course of the last year or two.
I actually checked out most of the posted links for the clubs ( many of which seem to be business sites ) and I did see some little things that bothered me like on one site, there was a picture of a lady with a PSA 1 titled dog which also had an AKC CGC and TT title - I thought that didn't bode well for speaking of the dogs Protection ability if they had those two AKC titles.
Just my opinion of course, but I think that most people with experience with true PPD's or Police canines would agree.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
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Vadium - you want to be careful what you compare PSA to. The KNPV is a prey based sport. It is trained in prey and the vast majority of the dogs in the KNPV championships are 100% prey dogs.
The fact is without training in the exercises of a new or different dog sport many dogs from other dog sports can have problems.
I don’t know the PSA. I am going to watch a competition this spring. With that said I would hazard a guess that most dogs in the PSA would have problems with a good French ring helper - and FRENCH RING IS 100% A PREY BASED Sport. Back in the mid-1980's I went to one of the first Mondio Ring competitions in Tourne France. Schutzhund dogs and KNPV dogs were running out of the stadium because the helpers were very good French ring helpers and their clatter sticks.
My feeling is that a good many of these dogs would have done just fine had they been exposed to the French helpers for a week or so.
My point is simply this "A DOG SPORT IS A DOG SPORT IS A DOG SPORT no matter how you dress it up"
Well said Ed. I just would like a sport that will judge on the out come or result of the training and not the methods used. There is not enough people out there that are like that and have that understanding
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