My GSD "pines" for me when I leave the house, but as soon as I'm out of sight, he starts looking for someone else in the house who will feed him. Loyal huh! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Will, I'd own Fetz in a heartbeat. Might be my last one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> but he's a fantastic dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That German math is pretty funny, but it aptly describes the bunch I think. Emma is probably around 80% defense and 45% prey. . .now.

Strange critters.

Will wrote - Don, About eight years ago, I had a client request a Dobe as a PPD, due to allergy reasons. I did a bunch of research ( much harder back then before the internet became widely used ) and found a few sources in Europe that seemed to produce dogs capable of the work involved. I added up all the figures, and my final quote to the client was 3.5 times my usual price for a PPD. They ended up taking a GSD instead, and were very happy with her and taking a daily dose of allergy medication.


Eight years ago and still had to settle for the best. (being snide, I'm bias but I don't believe what I write).

I like the Dobbies they look mean & musclular almost as their legend use to quote in the 1970s a "Devil on a leash"!!

There was a 1970-80s Movie in the U.S. (and this probably hurt em, bad people going out breeding and buying) called the "Dobbermanns!" it was a horror movie. Darn good looking pack of Dobbies in it. But it probably was the begining of the end, remember the "Black Talon" handgun cartrigde. It ain't good being popular in in the USA. Unless you are human actor or a GSD, maybe a Collie/Lassie! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Tammy,

My reference to dominance was not meant to indicate that the dobies were vile animals. I was just trying to share some of the information that I read. As I indicated, I have had very positive experiences with dobermanns.

Speaking of dobies in the movies - what about "The Doberman Gang"? Anyone seen it?

By the way is Fetz pictured on this forum? I have heard so much about him. I am really, really curious.

The Doberman Gang! Man, that movie is a blast from the past. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
There was also an old movie staring Dennis Weaver ( one of those Tuesday Movie of the Week that played in the late 1960's to the early 1970's ) that had him getting mugged in a department store and waking up after the store had closed....with the store now full of security Doberman's. It was actually a well done movie, and I think it was called "Trapped", but I can't find any mention of it on Movie Data Base sites...bummer.

Carolyn,
Fetz is the dog in the picture on page 19 of the 2005 Leerburg catalog under the "Bark and Hold training for Police Service Dogs.

He's on the site here:
http://www.leerburg.com/309.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/315.htm bottom of the page.

Fetz's dam was a Leerburg bitch ( nice, nice female, exceptional nerves and toughness ) bred to a good quality Czech import male. A breeding that would have been worth repeating, in my opinion.

I have to agree it takes significant research to find a good dog. Perhaps it takes more research to find a good dobermann vs a good gsd but it takes research for both.

In general it is still very possible to find a Dobermann who is a strong working prospect. I will point to the success the UDC team enjoyed at the AWDF this year. Further Dobes are enjoying success and being titled in many venues including FR, PSA, Mondio Ring and k9 prosports.

I may be one of the lucky ones but my dobe has earned titles in two sports, does therapy work and is a joy in the home.

Vadim
http://www.usadobermann.com

I would have to say that the Doberman at one time was probably the most over bred dog going. I guess in the 70s and 80s. I know after "Zeus and Appollo,,patrol" everybody wanted one. Ofcourse that just ruined the breed for work or PPD,since thats what theyre bred for.People didnt want just Dobes, they wanted "Warlocks".
The biggest problem with Dobes is finding a good one,I know every body already knows that. But I will say that even the good ones I have seen were unreliable. Its like a Dobe is gonna do whatever it wants to do or doesnt want to do at the strangest times.

Hi Carolyn, I mentioned your name in reference to the dominance comment only as a reference point of where my comment stemmed from. No offense or defense intended! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Any breed (or mixed breed for that matter!) can have a dog with a dominance tendency, we see it in the form of protest to control from the human in obedience classes most! From our D-litter I have one pup in particular with a dominant, argumentative attitude, however he's the exception more than the rule. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Tammy.

Some very anecdotal evidence from my experience.

We have a 21 month old GSD, show/herding lines with older working lines mixed in. We also have a 10 month old Doberman female from US showlines.

In searching for our dobie we encountered as many different kinds as you'll find when searching for a GSD. Different levels of defense, prey drive, stable nerves (very unstable nerves) to dogs that I considered lobotomized... In other words, you have to do your homework. I will say that finding a good, healthy doberman with stable nerves is probably MUCH more difficult than finding the same quality dog as a GSD. If you want to find a true, quality working prospect you will have a much harder time than even finding a stable, healthy one.

Our GSD has high prey drive, moderate defense (to use ratios as other have, maybe 80/20 prey/defense or 70/30) and moderate hardness. He's been slower to mature than her by a long ways and is much more forgiving. He started as handler sensitive and has become much harder as he matured - probably due to the testosterone jump as he hit maturity.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> He's still very puppy-like mentally and has yet to get serious about things.
His kennel has produced successful show and working dogs (a bitch from their kennel produced a showline dog who participated in the BSP 6 times) and we are training him in French Ring and Schutzhund. As others have said you'll find a wide range of types in the GSD world.

The Dobie is from US showlines, but has several German Sch titled dogs a little back in her pedigree. We got her at 5 months and when I examined her she showed moderate prey drive and good nerves and confidence. She was very intelligent and wasn't afraid when I took her out of her element and showed her new things. That was perfect as my fiancee only wanted a quality pet dog and loved dobies.

As we found out later, part of that was just that she had been only moderately socialized and had been a bit subdued because she'd moved from breeder to co-owner and back to breeder. As she matured, she showed a lot more prey drive and dominance. If our GSD weren't older and as confident as he is, she'd make life very difficult for him or for any other second dog. Her level of defense and aggression has started to show up as well. She has no backup in her and is much more serious than the male. Id probably put her ratio at 60/40 defense/prey even though we've done nothing to encourage either. Although I think I now have some agreement for doing some bitwork with her... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

She was an accident though, and we had to look incredibly hard to find a dobie that was not only outgoing and intelligent but also stable. Too many that we saw had either had all instincts and drive bred out of them (robots or lobotomized dobies we called them) or were nervous wrecks with nerves that I wouldn't trust.

One thing that I would say is that she is definitely more "clingy" than our GSD. I know there was a post that talked about working dobermans not transferring as easily to a new handler on the board. Will try to locate it. After my experiences I could see that it would be more difficult to get her used to a new handler than the GSD's I've seen while working.

Just wanted to post that link that I mentioned. It's in the post by Cindy Easton Rhodes a little more than 1/2 way down the thread. I know Cindy's had great dobes and knows more about them than I'll ever know, so I tend to take her word on the subject of Dobermans transferring their bond to a new handler.

http://leerburg.server294.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=99;t=000055