Well, things are looking up, my "mut" is now a "retrieving GSD" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> he does have some of those drives like I said, I got him an intact buck goat to herd and he didn't take shit from it, lives for a ball and shows defense "not like my Vikings" LOL his brother did test ok for a police force here? Are we all meatheads for posting here like someone said?

Jason and VanCamp interesting post. You guys must of went to different schools together.VanCamp, Louis Doberman was a drug kingpin? Patrick can get his kicks at Petsmart. I'll just sit back and enjoy this.

Milt

JHCIII,

I don't think anybody is a meathead for posting here, AND your dog sounds like a pretty good one to me. You have chosen a good dog without regard to pedigree, for that, I salute you. One day, if you go looking for another good working dog, I hope that you will salute the breeder of that fine animal for being so RUTHLESS in his efforts to produce such an animal. I feel the average AM Shep breeder has taken the ruthlessness of many breeders before him, and thrown it all in the crapper. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jason; I got lucky....I was pissed for two years the more I learned and read, my dog was a very late bloomer but I kept working him anyway and now he is a friend, "all I wanted @ the time" this breeder is a show dog joke, she told me that she got rid of all my type dogs with sch, hgh in them, she didn't like them! I have sat here many times looking @ my budget and Ed's dogs, he he. But some day if I have a sliver of a working dog, I will want the whole thing!

 Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Cannon:
. . . .The changes brought on by doing only show breeding are not a lot different than the changes brought about by people breeding for protection only.

I think Richard's point here is loss of balance when breeding for selected characteristics whether it be physical (show) or behavioral (performance).

Sorry, Richard, I don't mean to misrepresent what you meant to say but you didn't respond yet & I think your comment is being taken the wrong way. Or ...... maybe *I* misunderstood it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Ellen,

I'm fully aware of what Richard is getting at. I just don't think it is a fair comparison that's all.

Oh, come on. . . You're the Herding lady. I was sure you were gonna back US up. I thought I made a good point with the dual capabilities of dogs with good working drives.

You must like HIM more than us. :rolleyes:


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So you did get the gist of what I was saying.

I would love to see some video of some of that action. GSD beaty at it's best. . .

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

VanCamp,

I DO back you up!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Problem is I agree with most everything Richard says too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

I just lost my "drive" for knocking show dogs if for no other reason than they can't help being what they are -- they were made that way. If show breeders stopped breeding them, they would go back to the way nature intended them to be -- real dogs. I feel sorry for them beyond words.

IMO ASD show dogs pay the price for man's ego and they stand as a grotesque monument to that ego. You wrote quite eloquently on another thread:

"More extreme dogs that, in the Fancy's mind, exemplified the standard won the shows. Now everybody, each year has a more extreme version of the ASD to breed for. Angulation, the "flying trot", refinement of bone(slight of bone, weak of bone), decline of other colors (uniformity of the most handsome color, in their minds), and total disregard for working temperment. Not only disregard for working temperment, but extreme prejudice against it."

I have one thing to add here. The "refinement", lack of pigment, extreme disfunctional rear angulation, "plush" (read that "suspiciously like long") coats, HEALTH PROBLEMS and, above all, the "total disregard for temperament" -- ALL those things come from inbreeding and constant close "line" breeding (read that "irresponsible, stupid breeding") practices. IMO these signs of degeneration in the breed are lauded by the show breeders to cover up their gross stupidity and GREED so that they can SELL THEIR MISTAKES to the gullible public. IMO it's a ponzi scheme. I cry real tears for the poor dogs that are paying the price for these "breeders". I can not attack these dogs.