So back to the topic. . .


Todd why don't you post Bernd vom Lierberg's numbers and % so we can compare them to Fero's. . .just for shats n' giggles.

If Fero was such a terrible dog and not a good producer, then why did everybody and there brother breed to him for so many years? Why would top working kennels in Germany use Fero? German shepherd breeders in Germany are far more advanced in breeding and bloodlines then we will ever be. How many dogs have been in the Bundesseiger that were bred here in the states? It is easy to say Fero is not a good producer, but look at the bloodlines of the top BSP dogs of the last few years, most have Fero.

Brad

Mike,

I don't care if you use quotes, I didn't come to the discussion board for an English lesson, I came for the interesting topics.

Brad

I'm going to say this once and if the discussion continues I'll close the thread.

It doesn't have anything to do with English lessons, it has to do with common courtesy and making one's thread more understandable.


Brad, if you have issues with it mail the board owner to complain. . .don't gum up a good thread with this crap.

Darn

i have no problem insulting Fero. Tired of testing Fero linebred dogs that can't stand to see themselves in the mirror or walk on slick floors, but bite full on the beautiful grass fields.
It may simply be that numbers and schutzhund titles are over rated. Or that the schutzhund test has a hell of a hole in it.
It is true, I test dogs all the time and see this all the time. To the point that i am really really warry of fero stuff. It is economics for me. It is safety for the law enforcement officers likle myself that I work with.
You can extoll the virtues of Fero all day long. if a significant number of his prgeny that I am presented with can't work, they can't work. Full grip or not.

Comes down to SPORT Dog or WORKING Dog doesn't it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Now the discussion can get heated up again!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Sometimes the term Working Dog can be misleading.

Do dogs in the 3rd and 4th generations really have that much of an impact?

I think they do have an influence, this is my reasoning. May be completely mad.

The third generation is 12.5% of the genetic material, the fourth is what? 6.25%?

Those numbers may not seem to carry a lot of weight, but you have to consider that there are a body of traits that every dog has or doesn't have genetically. Those groupings of traits tend to be passed down within bloodlines.

So for argument's sake, if Spooky vom NerveBag passed bad nerves to his progeny in a dominate or not dominate way (who really knows how temperament traits are passed??) then you can safely bet that even though a dog in the third or fourth generation down may very well express those traits. . .and if not really expressed. . .may carry them around.

So if you linebreed. . .watch out.


Think of color. If you don't ever want to see black dogs, but you have a black dog 4 generations back. . .you may very well still get black dogs down the line when you happen to breed to another dog that carries the recessive black color. For instance, linebreeding with a distant cousin or other. . .


The traits that are passed are more important than the measly percentages.


Another example that can be seen. Mink vom Haus Wittfeld's progeny. . .especially in the second and third generation down tend to be smallish, and have slide shaped heads. You can run your finger from between their ears to their noses in a nearly straight line. LOL

I see that all the time in the third and fourth generation.


My Mink great granddaughter is small, has a flat head, and squinty eyes. I think it comes straight from Mink.

Her father is a big, nice shaped dog, with a nice head. He is half the genetics? Go figure. . .

Stop is what some people would call the slide head thing, or more accurately a lack of stop.


But that showdog terminology I try to stay away from. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />