Lee wrote: "I'm taking this to mean that you feel there were "politics" involved in the running of the Nationals and that placings/scorings were somehow unduly influenced. I couldn't disagree more. Judging was tough, fair, and consistent, and the best dogs rose to the top."

DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. That isn't what I meant. My point is that this whole discussion is par for the course in USA. I didn't say DICK'erydock about judging or anything else.

I'm just making a an opinionated comment for newbies that don't understand what they are seeing. It is a bunch of BS, in my opinion. BS that is part of USA.

I'm not being a wiseass here - I honestly have no clue what you are referring to in your post:
"Not that the DVG doesn't have it's own similar problems, but they are less, and not at the forefront of nearly every major event". WHAT is at the forefront of every major event? If you didn't mean politics, what did you mean?

Never mind

I went to my first national level SchH championship early last year (as a spectator). I went specifically to see powerful dogs. I was quite surprised that, to my novice eye, nearly all of the dogs seemed to me to be less powerful then my husband's then 19 month old GSD, at that time still early in his SchH training. I told Ivan Balabanov this, who we were training with. Ivan told me that I don't understand how much control has to be put on a dog to get them to perform at that level. He said that oftentimes the same dog can show his power and score in the low 90's due to control issues, or appear less powerful but more controlled and score in the high 90's. The same dog! He said it depends on what your goals are for the dog... show his power or score high points? I thought this was interesting...

I've heard exactly the same thing from other folks who have trialed at high levels in SchH championships, and who have observed the training of these high point dogs. For example, I heard that Bastin is a powerful dog, but to get the points his trainer ended up suppressing a lot of his power.

Perhaps if SchH judges placed more emphasis on power... by taking away a lot more points from dogs more who don't display power... we wouldn't see this happening. Perhaps then the truly powerful dogs could really show their power instead of having it suppressed to chase points.

Laura

I think Laura's hit upon a very important point.

In Schutzhund, what are we evaluating more thoroughly: the dog, or the handler's ability to train the dog? The dog's tractability--or its power? (both were attributes of the GSD much admired by Max von Stephanitz).

For my money, the jury's going to be out on this for a long, long time.

Pete

Ed……..Very unprofessional comments about judging and Judges. If you were trialing dogs, earning titles, or judging on the field you might have a little empathy. After reviewing the entries of the 2002 USA Nationals I failed to find any Leerburg progeny either. I have been purchasing videos from you since 1982 and was definitely not in diapers then. I don’t think you know all there is to know about dog training, trialing, or judging Schutzhund. Take out the superfluous B.S. in your article and it could be a positive and constructive editorial worthy of an ambassador for Dog Sports in America. Extorting anyone’s performance on video to reinforce your personal bias is unprofessional too. Agree to disagree, be civil, and work for improvements without being divisive. You are perceived at a higher standard, there must be a better way for the benefit of Schutzhund.

Alan and I already went round and round in PM on this. We disagree. Alan would rather stick his head in the sand, act like an astringe and hope things improve. He would rather wait and see if things will magically get better. I on the other hand would rather look someone in the eye that screws me and tell him or her they are an incompetent fool and they should resign ( are you listening Mark?)

Yes Alan has bought tapes from me since 1982, he continues to buy tapes so he must thing the information is worth the investment. In fact he has bought a ton of tapes over the years and I thank him for his business.

I am not sure what the comment about me not having one of my dogs in the nationals has to do with anything. Getting a dog in the nationals is a matter of luck: luck to produce a good dog: luck to get dog to a good trainer, luck that the trainer has luck in training he dog and luck that the dog stays healthy. Alan – what does this have to do with Mark? I wish I have been luckier but I was not. I stand on the reputation of the dogs that I have produced. They have not all been great dogs but there are a bunch out there that I am very proud of.

I have already answered the issue of me showing dogs - read what I wrote Alan. Again - what does this have to do with Marks Incompetence? Am I missing something? Przybylski is a buffoon - he will look you in the eye smile and lie to you. He will talk to you shake your hand, act like you’re a friend and stick a knife in your back. He climbed in bed with Meloy and never got out. Meloy is dead and Przybylski is still around - will someone tell me why he is still head judge??? He is a liar and a jerk. He will screw you in a minute if he feels like it will benefit him.

So if this is unprofessional – so be it. Mark knows exactly where this is coming from. Call him, email him ask him to post here. He will not do it because he knows why I am so vocal about him. He is KK2 individual. Its time Schutzhund USA can his ass and get someone with integrity into the head judge position - after all shouldn't the head jusge have that quality before all others? So what am I missing Alan?

My bias is that the sport (and the market for dogs it creates) leads to selecting and breeding for temperament traits that are more likely to produce a dog that can excel at sport, but is not neccesarily going to produce a more "powerful" dog that is likely to excel as a police service dog. Clearly the sport demands a dog with excellant prey drive and active aggression. However, the sport doesn't need a dog with a degree of sharpness or even social aggression, and actually, the BH might tend to fail some of these dogs with traits of sharpness. Also, there doesn't seem to be a large market for dogs with strong social aggression/dominance, as most people in the sport don't want a dog that can be so difficult to train. Plus, how many "working homes" are there out there. So while the sport contributes to the gene pool in certain ways, it might also result in a watering down of temperament traits. Some of the Czech/Slovak dogs tend to have more sharpness and defense instinct, but can lack the intense prey drive and sound nerves of the more popular West German and Belgian lines that tend to dominate the sport. You do not see the Czech dogs consistently competing at the top sport levels. So while training is certainly a major factor, I think the sport has changed over time and along with it, selection for temperament traits that are more likely to earn points than to produce power/aggression has occurred.

Ed's dogs are of top quality breeding with the genetic engine to do the work. I believe many of his dogs are capable of top sport competition but there are many people who do not put the time into it for whatever reason. I take this in a personal way as I have two of Ed's dogs and they are young....but my oldest is almost 15 months old and I guarantee you I will be at the nationals with him. So be ready...I am on my way...BOOH YEA!!!...in the words of VanCamp!
There is alot I would love to say but the language is not appropriate for this forum. Even though it may be truth!!! I have also had offers from people you would not believe asking for purchase of my boy, ie. top level competitors(no names no matter who asks).
I don't understand that just because one wants to speak the truth for betterment of the breed and sport why it has to be classified as "unprofessional". I know you addressed this Ed but it pissed me off...I'm sorry I hope yopu don't mind.
Pat

Ed……The USA Schutzhund Club has a Constitution and By-laws, and a Board of Inquiry. If you possess the evidence, then present it to the board. Your incensed editorials do nothing to help Schutzhund. What you missed is obvious to everyone…….